Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

[straydoglogic]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

YOUR SAYING YOU WILL NEVER FIGHT FOR THE UNITES STATES OF AMERICA IF THEY NEED YOU

I swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I will not fight in ANY illegal wars again such as this one, and I will NOT support tyranny and terrorism. I am a member of the Oath Keepers, and that is what I stand for and support. Here you go, familiarize yourself with the Oath Keepers. I will never again fight for this government, until it becomes responsible and accountable to the people.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

He said exactly why he holds on to the R, and those reasons are that he feels that you have to play the game in order to win. He said that a third party candidate has no real shot at winning, so he runs as a Republican.

Precisely. Paul is a libertarian with an R by his name to keep his seat in Congress and because it was unlikely for a 3rd party candidate to win the presidency.

By the way, Ron Paul received more money donations from the military than any other presidential candidate in 2008.

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

I haven't read Ayn Rand's fiction, but I've read literature based on objectivism, and her work/philosophy. You don't have to know of Ayn Rand to have a clear understanding of individualism and collectivism.
I completely understand the difference of individualism and collectivism. I realize collectivism is where our government is, and is the death of individual liberty. I also recognize my full-on neoconservative right wing libertarian constitutionalist individualist conservative republican stance. The party of which the 2 party system that governs this great nation today that my category fits into is the (R).

You are correct and I shouldn't have said it that way. There are many sources available on collectivism and individualism, and I learned about it before reading Rand. But Rand has left an impression on my mind and in my life that will last forever. But for simplicity just read up on collectivism and individualism. The longer people believe in this two party bs system the more doomed we are.

[horsepwr]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

I think we all can agree Dr. Paul is an intellectual that knows history, likely, better than anyone else in the government.
His reason for holding the (R) is as sensible and reasonable as any "true republican".

You can dissect this all day to try and discredit the choice to register Republican. And you can find valid reasoning.
You can also choose to simply disassociate yourself from the reasoning you've found in your dissection and with any currupt ideals that people try to attach to the republican party. In this choice you stand true to the republican party because it is the party of "true republicans" as well. I find that easier.

[horsepwr]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

and if Paul's choice was purely political. If his angle was to choose a party to better his chances at winning the presidency, he's not as smart as I thought because a (D) by his name would have done him far better than an (R). But we all know that he's smarter than that.

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

I think we all can agree Dr. Paul is an intellectual that knows history, likely, better than anyone else in the government.
His reason for holding the (R) is as sensible and reasonable as any "true republican".

You can dissect this all day to try and discredit the choice to register Republican. And you can find valid reasoning.
You can also choose to simply disassociate yourself from the reasoning you've found in your dissection and with any currupt ideals that people try to attach to the republican party. In this choice you stand true to the republican party because it is the party of "true republicans" as well. I find that easier.

You make some good points but I don't believe you understand the deeper reality to the political ring. If you have studied collectivism and individualism from a quality source you would know this. Thus, the reason I mention Ayn Rand, also Hayek would be beneficial to read up on. Parties are simply a distraction to keep people arguing over issues while the politicians continue to push forward with the bigger agenda. The only way to stop this is to get a 3rd party in office to wake up the dems and repubs to make them aware that they will lost their jobs. I can't stand it when people say we just need go back to our roots of what the party used to be. Okay, I agree it would be better than today but it would still not work. The parties have been corrupt since their inception. Like I said, it all comes down to collectivism vs individualism. Any government is bad and will always lead to totalitarianism. Our Republic was the best shot at having a limited government but it has failed and thus our country will eventually have a dictator of some sort and represent totalitarianism. The fact that the constitution can be amended makes this all possible and likely. Our system of checks and balances is almost over. Each time a new judge is elected to the Supreme Court we are even closer to the end of our freedom. Sotomayor was the most recent one, a racist leftist judge who uses apathy in her rulings.

My hope is that none of this happens while I am still here but with the rapid growth of government lately I would bet I will see the tragic changes that will destroy our freedoms, but this does not mean I will quit fighting to prevent it. I will fight until the day that I die to stop this, however people are so easily corrupted that is only a matter of time before they are back in office again.

[horsepwr]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

So you feel confident, and believe whole heartedly, that your libertarian 3rd party is free from collectivism and leftist ideals?

[deepsouth]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

I think the reason Ron Paul has the "R" by his name is because in this day and age the "3rd Party" doesn't really have a chance in winning the election so have having one of the major paties letters by your name helps-JMHO

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

So you feel confident, and believe whole heartedly, that your libertarian 3rd party is free from collectivism and leftist ideals?

I believe that if someone is a true libertarian then they believe whole heartedly in individualism and limited government. Of course there will be those who use the libertarian party as a front to get into office and there are those who will be corrupted after taking office even though their heart and mind were in the right place prior to taking office. I am not saying the libertarian party is immune from corruption, imo all politicians are either corrupt already or it is only a matter of time before they become corrupted. Ron Paul instills hope that there can be good politicians, and I'm sure there are several more. I have heard a few congressman who seem to be loyal to the constitution as well, but I do not know of any senators who are. Once again however, I am not too concerned over the party line people choose, but more interested in the belief of individualism. I just feel that it is impossible to have individualism with the consistent election of Republicans and Democrats. I am not sure that people want individualism anymore as there is more and more proof from both sides that everyone wants some government intervention, thus promoting collectivism.

If you go to the Ludwig von Mises site, mises.org, and read what true libertarians write about, you will see that they all believe in the free market and limited government. There are no contradictions or hypocrites that I have seen, everyone there understands that we must limit the state's powers and leave people to live based on their own decisions. The only need for the state is to provide a military and to enforce laws to prevent people's individual freedoms from being imposed on, such as murder, theft, rape, etc.

I do not wish for others to think I am trying to push my political views on them and do not believe everyone should be a libertarian. I simply wish people would stand up for individual freedoms and stop allowing the collective leaders to trample on those freedoms in the name of political correctness and fairness. They continue to pass laws that protect small groups from being offended in the name of fairness, however there is nothing in the constitution that says we are not to be offended. Once you go down that road, as we have already, you eventually strip all of the freedoms away to make everybody equal and equal with less freedom. The book 1984 I am reading now depicts a very good extreme example of what the future will look like if this persists, also Ayn Rand's Anthem does the same in a similar manner.

[horsepwr]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

okay. You had painted a picture as though you believe that the libertarian party is free from curruption and collectivists. That would be absolutely delusional.

You state that you believe that a true libertarian believes in individualism and limited government. Do you realize this is the conservative republican platform? Throw all the bs out the window. Individual liberty and limited government is the conservative republican.
Laissez-faire(conservative republican)
I see no need to jump ship.
You can right another book, but you've already summed it up. You left the (R) for reasons that are absolutely republican ideals.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

Just a few of my favorite sites on the matter....

http://www.lp.org/

http://mises.org/Community/

http://www.libertarianism.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

okay. You had painted a picture as though you believe that the libertarian party is free from curruption and collectivists. That would be absolutely delusional.

You state that you believe that a true libertarian believes in individualism and limited government. Do you realize this is the conservative republican platform? Throw all the bs out the window. Individual liberty and limited government is the conservative republican.
Laissez-faire(conservative republican)
I see no need to jump ship.
You can right another book, but you've already summed it up. You left the (R) for reasons that are absolutely republican ideals.

I left the Republican party because the party has failed the people. Sure, you are correct about the true republican foundation, mainly being conservative and pro laissez faire. However, I am more extreme in my perception of what limited government should entail. For instance, I support the legalization of drugs so long as the individuals using them do not affect society. Primarily, the legalization of Marijuana, for which I do not use, but feel a person has the right to choose what they wish to do with their body. I do not favor the state dictating what you can and can't do to your body. This is a major difference in the Republicans and Libertarians. Also, I do not believe patent laws are fair as they are another instance where the state steps in and governs what is allowed to be invented and so forth. I also believe that the government is not necessary for building infrastructure because I feel the free market could do a better job. We have never had a true free market and that is what I support. There would be no monopolies if a free market existed. I am also against lobbyists, even if they act in favor of something I support. They are not fair and result in government favoritism. But for the most part, I support the republican party on many issues, as they are the polar opposite of the democrats, however they end up increasing the government's role just as much as the left by with policies to the right. If the day comes when a true Republican takes office things could change for the better and I would support such a president, but that still wouldn't change my libertarian beliefs. I have done extensive research on politics in general and all of the parties dating back to the inception of our country. Thus, I am quite certain of my beliefs and which party reflects them best. But to say it one more time, I am a believer in individualism and not collectivism. The government does not support individualism to any extent and is actively trying to seize every aspect of it that still exists.

horsepwr, have you ever studied the Austrian School of Economics? If you haven't and ever wish to check out mises.org or truthandliberty.com. Truthandliberty.com has a full text book of the basics of the Austrian school posted on the website. Everything comes down to the economics of the world and the Austrian school is the only one that would work to benefit society to the greatest degree. The Austrian founders and the current staff are strict supporters of individualism. The school's main program is at Auburn University. If only our leaders would follow this approach instead of the Macroeconomic model from Maynard Keynes the world would be a much better place. Ronald Reagan chose Milton Friedman as his unofficial adviser during the 80s which I believe is why the economy came out of the recession the way it did under Reagan. Friedman originally was a supporter of Keynesian economics until after the great depression when he realized Keynes was wrong. Now we have a president who once again supports Keynes and just look at what is happening. However, we have never had anyone support the Austrian approach, but Friedman was the next best thing.

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

Just a few of my favorite sites on the matter....

http://www.lp.org/

http://mises.org/Community/

http://www.libertarianism.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I didn't read this before posting to your last first response but you will see that I recommended mises.org. Those are good sites you mentioned but be cautious on what you take from Wikipedia, always check out the discussions section to see the arguments over the material. They are pretty fair on libertarianism but anything conservative typically gets a biased entry in Wikipedia. It is almost as if a bunch of leftists run that site. Two more good sites you might enjoy are truthandliberty.com and freedomforceinternational.org. I like Mises the best and it is definitely where you will find great articles from reputable authors. But to study the Austrian School of Economics, which is what Mises.org is, you can read a text book on truthandliberty under the economics tab.

[straydoglogic]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

That's why I left wiki for last, I don't trust them but sometimes you can get a good general idea on some things with them. Also, a few months back they had everything ever written on mises.org for download for free on the site. Not sure if it's still available.

[JsJs24]

Re: Anyone notice Paul was back on Beck?

That's why I left wiki for last, I don't trust them but sometimes you can get a good general idea on some things with them. Also, a few months back they had everything ever written on mises.org for download for free on the site. Not sure if it's still available.

You can download a lot of stuff still for free on mises.org.