there is hope yet

[PL456]

according to worldwide publishing house reports, one bible is sold or given away somewhere in the world about every second--about 50 a minute.

the bible continues to be the most published book of all time.
the bible has been translated into more languages than any other book.

interestingly enough, the bible is the most shoplifted book as well.

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. If you know me, then you will know my Father also" John 14:6-7

"As surely as I live", says the Lord, "every knee shall bow before me and every tongue shall confess and give praise to God." Romans 14:11

On this Sunday, with all the concerns in the world, have you taken time to talk to your Heavenly Father? He wants to hear from you, just as any good father does. You are a child of His, and He cares for you. He wants the best for you. Give Him just a few minutes of your time...
He challenges you to try Him and He will "open the windows of Heaven and pour out so many blessings that you can hardly contain them"--Malachi 3:10

Think on this...who among the eartly fathers when asked for something would give their child a snake? How much more does your Heavenly Father care for you?

[6p6]

Re: there is hope yet

amen

[Klash]

Re: there is hope yet

To offer another perspective; I think a society that adheres to "faith" to "obtain knowledge" isn't going to see much hope.
Tell me, do you not think there were many Christians out there that prayed about who they should support for president and their "faith" lead them to Obama?
Faith can justify any evil; just look at extremist Muslims and how would you say your faith is superior to theirs? Faith (ignoring logic) is the core of our societies problem.

I would see more hope if "Atlas Shrugged" surpassed the Bible in sales.

[horsepwr]

Re: there is hope yet

I gotta read that Atlas Shrugged. Glenn Beck even mentions it now and then on his shows.

[PL456]

Re: there is hope yet

well, klash, this faith-based experiment called the USA has lasted over 220 years, has freed more people from tyranny than any other country in history, is the most charitable nation, and has become the wealthiest and most powerful nation than any other in the history of the world. Our citizens enjoy the highest standard of living than any other on the planet, and more people are clamoring to get here than any other country. Funny how that "trust in faith" by our forefathers is working out, aint it? This is your cue to go google how the forefathers were not actually faith-inspired men, but you are wrong and you know it. This country was founded on judeo-christian ideology, and as it was attributed to one of our founders, the minute we begin going away from these principles, we will begin to fail--that is what obama is trying to do as fast as possible.

regarding your comment on adhering to "faith" to obtain "knowledge"...it is though faith that you trust God. Men do not have knowledge, God does. By going on faith, you admit that you DO NOT KNOW the answer but He does. Your statement makes no sense from a Christian point of view. Dont you remember my posts in the past about "cutting edge medicine" in years past becoming folly today, as an example of man's supreme knowledge?
It just amazes me to think that people with half a brain actually believe that mankind is the possessor of all knowledge and can, if given enough time, figure everything out. Man is internally and irrevocably flawed without God in his life.
You must not have children, as in my mind God gives us children to show us how we think and act, compared to Him. The 2 year old knows it all, refuses help, is stubborn..the parent must guide him. Try and convince a 2 year old (or a teenager for that matter..LOL) that the parent is right and you have an exercise in futility. This is a similar relationship between God and man. God--the all knowing Father, we--the children--stubborn, silly, fearful, anxious, yet bold and self-aggrandizing. Is the parallel here too much for you to grasp, Klash??

[horsepwr]

Re: there is hope yet

well, klash, this faith-based experiment called the USA has lasted over 220 years, has freed more people from tyranny than any other country in history, is the most charitable nation, and has become the wealthiest and most powerful nation than any other in the history of the world. Our citizens enjoy the highest standard of living than any other on the planet, and more people are clamoring to get here than any other country. Funny how that "trust in faith" by our forefathers is working out, aint it? This is your cue to go google how the forefathers were not actually faith-inspired men, but you are wrong and you know it. This country was founded on judeo-christian ideology, and as it was attributed to one of our founders, the minute we begin going away from these principles, we will begin to fail--that is what obama is trying to do as fast as possible.

regarding your comment on adhering to "faith" to obtain "knowledge"...it is though faith that you trust God. Men do not have knowledge, God does. By going on faith, you admit that you DO NOT KNOW the answer but He does. Your statement makes no sense from a Christian point of view. Dont you remember my posts in the past about "cutting edge medicine" in years past becoming folly today, as an example of man's supreme knowledge?
It just amazes me to think that people with half a brain actually believe that mankind is the possessor of all knowledge and can, if given enough time, figure everything out. Man is internally and irrevocably flawed without God in his life.
You must not have children, as in my mind God gives us children to show us how we think and act, compared to Him. The 2 year old knows it all, refuses help, is stubborn..the parent must guide him. Try and convince a 2 year old (or a teenager for that matter..LOL) that the parent is right and you have an exercise in futility. This is a similar relationship between God and man. God--the all knowing Father, we--the children--stubborn, silly, fearful, anxious, yet bold and self-aggrandizing. Is the parallel here too much for you to grasp, Klash??

So man is irrevocably flawless with God in his life?

[daved150]

Re: there is hope yet

huh...the 2yr old argument is good!! i like that...

klash...jack with me know about religion and i'll send you too your room!!! lol

[Klash]

Re: there is hope yet

well, klash, this faith-based experiment called the USA has lasted over 220 years, has freed more people from tyranny than any other country in history, is the most charitable nation, and has become the wealthiest and most powerful nation than any other in the history of the world. Our citizens enjoy the highest standard of living than any other on the planet, and more people are clamoring to get here than any other country.

So America is a Christian theocracy?

The only people who think this country is an experiment based on faith are people who have been indoctrinated to believe that this is a nation built on Christian principles. Since you yourself made that same statement (this country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles) - tell me what principles that are unique to the Judeo-Christian doctrine that this country was founded on. I mean surely since you made the statement you can back it up. Coincidentally, I hear the statement all the time but never hear any specific support for the statement. Of course, that is part of the problem; those that adhere to "faith" learn to accept dogma at face value and don't question the things they say or believe.

Countries whose laws are based on a particular faith are theocracies, which America was never intended to be.

Funny how that "trust in faith" by our forefathers is working out, aint it? This is your cue to go google how the forefathers were not actually faith-inspired men, but you are wrong and you know it. This country was founded on judeo-christian ideology, and as it was attributed to one of our founders, the minute we begin going away from these principles, we will begin to fail--that is what obama is trying to do as fast as possible.

I don't care what religions are forefathers submitted to - they were not of the same religious cloth of today's religious people, they agreed on the first amendment so people could be free from religion. Christians today try and misrepresent the first amendment so they can impose their beliefs of morality on others that don't agree with them.

regarding your comment on adhering to "faith" to obtain "knowledge"...it is though faith that you trust God. Men do not have knowledge, God does. By going on faith, you admit that you DO NOT KNOW the answer but He does. Your statement makes no sense from a Christian point of view. Dont you remember my posts in the past about "cutting edge medicine" in years past becoming folly today, as an example of man's supreme knowledge?
It just amazes me to think that people with half a brain actually believe that mankind is the possessor of all knowledge and can, if given enough time, figure everything out. Man is internally and irrevocably flawed without God in his life.

Faith (in the context you use it) is synonymous with irrational. Men created the idea of god and some men decide to submit their minds to the ideas of other men - some men don't (me). Your god is based from the Bible, a book, written by other men. You believe it is the word of god because you were told to. I don't believe mankind is the possessor of all knowledge and depending on the nature of the universe he may never possess all knowledge.

You must not have children, as in my mind God gives us children to show us how we think and act, compared to Him. The 2 year old knows it all, refuses help, is stubborn..the parent must guide him. Try and convince a 2 year old (or a teenager for that matter..LOL) that the parent is right and you have an exercise in futility. This is a similar relationship between God and man. God--the all knowing Father, we--the children--stubborn, silly, fearful, anxious, yet bold and self-aggrandizing. Is the parallel here too much for you to grasp, Klash??

No, I understand the irrational correlation you are trying to build and yes I have two kids. The difference I don't teach my kids to believe in things there is no evidence for, once you do that they can believe in anything and my kids don't have to be irrational to acknowledge I exist. Given that I raise my kids by adhering to reason, I can always explain my position and yes they may not heed my warning until they have had an unpleasant experience but that experience will only reinforce an objective, independent reality in which I present to my children. Religious people on the other hand can only resort to regurgitating dogma which is only reinforced by a certain segment of the population that endorses the same irrational beliefs and people like me are perceived as being evil and you wonder why our society is degrading with more distinct groups fighting other distinct groups - it's subjectivism in which the result is political correctness, tribal warfare and bigotry. The only consistent standard man can hold with other men is reason/logic but that standard has been ignored for secular humanism (which leads to collectivism, i.e. socialism, communism, etc.) vs. Christianity (which leads to theocracy).

[Klash]

Re: there is hope yet

I gotta read that Atlas Shrugged. Glenn Beck even mentions it now and then on his shows.

Man, it's phucking long; it's like 1200 pages. "Philosophy; who needs it" condenses all the ideas down into a little over 100pages in a non-fiction format.

[horsepwr]

Re: there is hope yet

Man, it's phucking long; it's like 1200 pages. "Philosophy; who needs it" condenses all the ideas down into a little over 100pages in a non-fiction format.

"Philosophy" sounds allot more my style Appreciate the tip!

[PL456]

Re: there is hope yet

ok, klash..i hope you do well with that line of thought. you have obviously spent much time preparing a defense for your position.
the fact is that truth is truth. You can think about it, twist it, justify your position all you want. Some things are above even your understanding. Jesus Christ's coming was predicted by prophets thousands of years before His coming. Please, explain this.
Jesus healed hundreds of people in front of thousands of witnesses. explain, please.

in life, there are things that defy rationality. God did give us a rational brain. He also gave us proof that Jesus was His son. If you read the bible, which also is an historical document, by the way, not just "some book written by men", you will see historical evidence for your rational brain to digest.

We who believe that there are things in this life greater than ourselves must need a God to pacify our own fears and ignorance, am I right Klash?

Without God in your life, you are truly alone. This is sad. I look forward to your quote by quote evisceration of my post. I enjoy seeing your Spock-like rational brain dissect the undisputed 2000 year Christian faith on fitnessgeared.com.

[Klash]

Re: there is hope yet

Without God in your life, you are truly alone. This is sad. I look forward to your quote by quote evisceration of my post. I enjoy seeing your Spock-like rational brain dissect the undisputed 2000 year Christian faith on fitnessgeared.com.

I like that - evisceration!

A belief in god does not change anything other than the way you approach life. You think you have a personal relationship with the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of this reality - doesn't mean you have an almighty companion to help you through life; just means you think you do.

What is sad about realizing you are an individual responsible for your own life and your own values? You can call it alone but I'm not anymore alone than you are - we both share our lives with people we value. You only have an imaginary friend that I don't, that is based on the ideas of other very ancient men.

ok, klash..i hope you do well with that line of thought. you have obviously spent much time preparing a defense for your position.

Na, it's actually fairly easy when your an atheist. All Christians, well theists for that matter, create arguments from the same flawed premises, they just use different approaches and different degrees of arrogance. Arrogance and faith make it very easily to eviscerate. (not saying your arrogant, just making a general statement.)

the fact is that truth is truth. You can think about it, twist it, justify your position all you want. Some things are above even your understanding. Jesus Christ's coming was predicted by prophets thousands of years before His coming. Please, explain this.
Jesus healed hundreds of people in front of thousands of witnesses. explain, please.

That's right the truth is the truth. What's more likely the creator of the universe incarnated into a baby human boy's body, worked miracles, healed the sick and then died on the cross for humanities sins? Or there was an amazing man and his legends and reputation started going a fictional. There's tons of men in Jesus time that claimed they were deity but the thing Jesus had that they didn't is he didn't come from wealth. Biggest hoax ever. Religion is a con.

in life, there are things that defy rationality. God did give us a rational brain. He also gave us proof that Jesus was His son. If you read the bible, which also is an historical document, by the way, not just "some book written by men", you will see historical evidence for your rational brain to digest.

We who believe that there are things in this life greater than ourselves must need a God to pacify our own fears and ignorance, am I right Klash?

Well yeah, all fiction books have a degree of truth in them but the world presented in the Bible is one of Myth and Magic - it's fiction. It may have some real places mentioned in it but so do a number of fiction books.

No, I think religion exploits ignorance to pacify fear.