lawmakers to lower the drinking

[daved150]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Read my post on the teen behavior. It's an absolute fact that they do not have the mentality to make wise choices until after 18. Also, many (especially men) do not have the ability to make wise choices until later. This is not a matter of opinion but of brian development. It doesn't matter what the government thinks because we all know they do a piss poor job of investigating things before they make a decision. The fact they can vote and enter the military is just an age the government came up with, there is no study behind that age. It's just based on the fact that most kids are graduating HS at that age so the government feels that if they are done with HS then they should be entitled to vote or enter the military. As with everything else, the government did not do their homework first. Read the study I posted and it will explain it in facts that came from study of brain developement. Regardless of what the governemnt thinks, 18 is not an age when teenages begin making wise choices. Most will struggle with logical choices for another few years depending on their brain development. Many studies have shown that guys don't develop until later than girls.

Think of it this way, there is another study that shows the number of people between 18 and 21 that vote liberal drops significantly after the age of 25. It's because their ability to think logically has developed. Now, with some, they stay that course, but with many the change is the result of the development of the brain and the ability to apply reason and logic into the choices they make.

t-man....alot dont start thinking "logicaly" ever! so, again, prohibition? according to klash, 94.8% of this board thinks illogical....those are all the ones that believe in god. and, now, shouldnt drink either. i get your point, but i dont agree with it. i'd like to see a break down, by age, of people charged with dui. that (dui's), too me, is the most irresponcible thing a drinker can do! (i know...i was 35!). i'm not thinking we'll find that most were of the younger age...probobly over 25

[quirkysmilin]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

If you don't think an 18 year old has the mental faculties to make rational decisions when given the option to drink; those same mental faculties would be the ones he relies on when choosing to to join the military or when deciding who should lead our nation. So for you to remain consistent you should oppose 18 year olds being eligible for the military or voting.

NOOOOO - I want the kid outta my house - whether its college or the military!!!! I will get back to you later on this - got the ladies over and we are partaking in some Strawberry Daquiris - I'm over 21 after all!!

[quirkysmilin]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

If you don't think an 18 year old has the mental faculties to make rational decisions when given the option to drink; those same mental faculties would be the ones he relies on when choosing to to join the military or when deciding who should lead our nation. So for you to remain consistent you should oppose 18 year olds being eligible for the military or voting.

Okay - here goes....I have had the recruiters to my house. They offered everything under the sun to my kid. Money can be very enticing when you are young and need your gas tank filled. Reality check: 4K a year is NOTHING. They offered to pay for his college. Reality: They can send you off to war at anytime until you are a junior. Kids at that age think they are invincible. They dont think they are going to die. They dont think that they will be sent off to war. I would like to say raise the age of eligibility to go into the military also, but speaking from experience, it can turn someone's life around for the positive. How does alcohol do that? Making a choice to go into the military and making the choice to drink alcohol are two very different things. Kids go into the military for some sort of future. Kids, however, drink alcohol for the temporary buzz. You are comparing apples to oranges with the argument of if they can die for our country, they should be able to drink. I liked the idea above of allowing drinking on military facilities. Having grown up on military bases most of my life, they can be one of the most secure places to be. Especially with all the MPs around......dang it if I didnt get busted for being out past curfew more times than I can count!! Only problem with that idea is if you open the door an inch, it tends to get pushed open a mile. Just keep the drinking age at 21. It will keep more kids alive, prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDS, and the unmentioned affect that drinking would have on the much younger population. The ones that would want to imitate their peers.

[Klash]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Okay - here goes....I have had the recruiters to my house. They offered everything under the sun to my kid. Money can be very enticing when you are young and need your gas tank filled. Reality check: 4K a year is NOTHING. They offered to pay for his college. Reality: They can send you off to war at anytime until you are a junior. Kids at that age think they are invincible. They dont think they are going to die. They dont think that they will be sent off to war. I would like to say raise the age of eligibility to go into the military also, but speaking from experience, it can turn someone's life around for the positive. How does alcohol do that? Making a choice to go into the military and making the choice to drink alcohol are two very different things. Kids go into the military for some sort of future. Kids, however, drink alcohol for the temporary buzz. You are comparing apples to oranges with the argument of if they can die for our country, they should be able to drink. I liked the idea above of allowing drinking on military facilities. Having grown up on military bases most of my life, they can be one of the most secure places to be. Especially with all the MPs around......dang it if I didnt get busted for being out past curfew more times than I can count!! Only problem with that idea is if you open the door an inch, it tends to get pushed open a mile. Just keep the drinking age at 21. It will keep more kids alive, prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDS, and the unmentioned affect that drinking would have on the much younger population. The ones that would want to imitate their peers.

Your looking at the issue pragmatically (this is good for them; this is not - that is implying support for an authoritative type nanny state). It's a rights issue. If they are an adult at 18 in all other matters - then they should be able to drink. If you think they should not be able to be an adult in all other matters then at least you are consistent but you cannot state they can be responsible on this issue but not on this one without contradicting yourself.

Also, I do not accept the premise that keeping the drinking age at 21 will keep more kids alive, keep more kids sober and decrease std's. If you look more people died due to alcohol poisoning during the prohibition than they do now. There were more homicides during the prohibition than there is now - making alcohol illegal does not change people's drinking behavior, it just changes whether they can do it openly or in the shadows. None of my friends waited till they were 21 to drink, we just did it under radar. I know a guy that died due to an overdose on drugs and he was amongst many of his druggie friends but instead of getting help, the druggie friends that were high, didn't want to get caught so they bailed and he died. When you criminalize something, you ostracize it, you don't stop it.

[2-Swole]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

I don't agree at all. I have seen too many people hurt...die..and kill other people to say lower the age. thats another huge number of possible drunk drivers out on our streets and I don't want someone I care about getting killed by a drunk 18 year old. I know what its like when ur 18 or so...u are most likely immature and have a lot to learn in this world. And if they go to war..i mean who is gunna keep them from drinkin??? They will be able to drink anyways huh??? under the table ...so why change the age. I dunno im just against it.

[bigbadexcursion]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

at ft bliss they can drink at 18.

personally I am against it. soldiers drink anyways, and do stupid shit.

it would only get worse if it were legal

[Dzone]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Hmmmm, so when you are old enough to die for your country, you are RESPONSIBLE at that age? OK, in rwanda, kids are brainwashed & trained at 10 years old to shoot an AK-47 and go in and massacre people...So fukckit, lets just let anyone drink...If a child chooses to join the military and be trained to be a killer, then let him drink too..huh? Oh, and they let kids drink in other countries? OK, lets just do everything like they do in europe...since when is the USA the same culture as france or spain???Lets change our whole fucckin society so we can be like those cool europeans...maybe a 80% tax rate like sweden

... if someones child ever was killed by a stupid drunk 18 year old, they wouldnt think it so cool...when I was 18 it was legal to drink...some of us were responsible about it, but many were drving so shytfaced they couldnt even stand up...

[quirkysmilin]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

State Age-21 laws are one of the most effective public policies ever implemented in the Nation...I am chagrined to report that some supposedly responsible officials would like to repeal them.(1)

Jim Hall, Chairman
National Transportation Safety Board

In 1984, Congress passed the National Minimum Purchase Age Act, to encourage each state to enact a minimum legal purchase age (MLPA) of 21 by 1986. The result was impressive: an estimated 1,071 lives were saved in 1987 alone. From 1975 - 1996, the estimated number of lives saved reached nearly 17,000.(2) In addition to a 63% decline in alcohol-related crash fatalities among young drivers since 1982, findings show that the MLPA has decreased the number of DWI arrests, youth suicides, marijuana use, crime, and alcohol consumption by youth.(3,4)


Youth Alcohol Consumption

High school seniors who could not legally drink until age 21 drank less before age 21 and between ages 21 - 25 than did seniors in states with lower drinking ages.(5,6) Similarly, a national survey of 16 - 21 year-olds found that teens from states with a higher MLPA drank less frequently.(7)
The 1978 National Study of Adolescent Drinking Behavior found that 10th - 12th graders in states with lower drinking ages drank significantly more, were less likely to abstain from alcohol, and were drunk more often than students in states with a drinking age of 21.(8)
A study of New York college students documented that students who began drinking at younger ages were more likely to drink heavily in college. They were also more likely to report alcohol-related problems such as trouble at work, with friends, family, and police.(9)
The behavior of 18 year-olds is particularly influential on youth ages 15 - 17, as young people typically imitate the practices of those who are slightly older, rather than the practices of those who are significantly older.(10) Therefore, if 18 year-olds can legally drink, their immediate, younger peers will drink too.
Fatalities, Crashes, and DWI Arrests

State motor vehicle fatality data from the 48 continental states found that lowering the MLPA for beer from 21 to 18 during the 1970s resulted in an 11% increase in fatalities among this age group.(11)
An Arizona Department of Public Safety report found that fatal accidents increased over 25% while traffic fatalities increased more than 35% after the state MLPA was lowered from 21 to 19.(12)
A Michigan study found that police reports of “had been drinking” crashes increased 35%, while the incidence of nighttime single-vehicle crashes among young men increased 17% after the state reduced its MLPA from 21 to 18.(13) Another Michigan study found that DWI arrests increased 141% for 18 - 20 year-olds after the state lowered the MLPA. Roadside surveys showed that the proportion of 16 - 20 year-old drivers with blood alcohol concentrations (BAC) over .05 more than doubled.(14)
Other Alcohol-Related Problems

The younger a person begins using alcohol, the greater the chance of developing alcohol dependence or abuse some time in their life. Of those who begin drinking at age-18, 16.6% subsequently are classified with alcohol dependence and 7.8% with alcohol abuse. If a person waits until age-21 before taking their first drink, these risks decrease by over 60%.(15)
The earlier a person begins using alcohol, the greater the risk of current and adult drug use(16, 17) and harm to the developing brain.(18)
Between 1979 and 1984, the suicide rate was 9.7% greater among adolescents and young adults who could legally consume alcohol than among their peers who could not.(19)
Using national data on alcohol and drug use among high school seniors from 1976 - 1987, one study found a decrease in marijuana use associated with increases in the MLPA.(20)
In raising the MLPA from 18 to 21, states observed an average 16% decrease in the rate of vandalism arrests, compared to an average 1.7% increase in states with a constant MLPA of 18.(21)
In Australia, lowering the drinking age was associated with an increase of 20% to 25% in cases of male delinquency.(22)
An Australian study of two states that lowered their MLPA found “a significant increase” in hospital admissions as a result of non-traffic alcohol-related accidents.(23)

[Klash]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

I don't agree at all. I have seen too many people hurt...die..and kill other people to say lower the age. thats another huge number of possible drunk drivers out on our streets and I don't want someone I care about getting killed by a drunk 18 year old. I know what its like when ur 18 or so...u are most likely immature and have a lot to learn in this world. And if they go to war..i mean who is gunna keep them from drinkin??? They will be able to drink anyways huh??? under the table ...so why change the age. I dunno im just against it.

Agreeing with lowering the drinking age does not correlate to condoning drunk driving. Do you condone 21+ year old people driving drunk and killing people? Or do you think they shouldn't be able to drink either. All of you people who are against lowering the drinking age are using arguments that could be used to support prohibition in it's entirety.

Hmmmm, so when you are old enough to die for your country, you are RESPONSIBLE at that age? OK, in rwanda, kids are brainwashed & trained at 10 years old to shoot an AK-47 and go in and massacre people...So fukckit, lets just let anyone drink...If a child chooses to join the military and be trained to be a killer, then let him drink too..huh? Oh, and they let kids drink in other countries? OK, lets just do everything like they do in europe...since when is the USA the same culture as france or spain???Lets change our whole fucckin society so we can be like those cool europeans...maybe a 80% tax rate like sweden

...if someones child ever was killed by a stupid drunk 18 year old, they wouldnt think it so cool...when I was 18 it was legal to drink...some of us were responsible about it, but many were drving so shytfaced they couldnt even stand up...

So you only think it is cool when someones child is killed by a stupid drunk driver that is over 21?

...and if those same ones that were so shytfaces they couldn't even stand up would drive drunk; do you think they would quit if the age was raised to 21?

Yeah supporting 18 year olds having the right to legally drink is the same thing as supporting Rwandan's kidnapping and coercing 10 year olds into killing their families and it's also the same thing as approving of the entire European legal system. <sarcasm>

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

it should be like where im from lebanon
You can drink at any age and smoke any age and AAS are on the shelves except for Gh has to be ordered....
THAT IS WHY BACK HOME BARELY U SEE PEOPLE SMOKING AND DRINKING AND EVEN TOUCHING AAS COZ THEY ALLOW IT.
here in the state, the more that u say u cant do this and that , THE MORE PEEPS WANNA DO IT.

its fact and we all have to face it.

[Dzone]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Agreeing with lowering the drinking age does not correlate to condoning drunk driving. Do you condone 21+ year old people driving drunk and killing people? Or do you think they shouldn't be able to drink either. All of you people who are against lowering the drinking age are using arguments that could be used to support prohibition in it's entirety.




So you only think it is cool when someones child is killed by a stupid drunk driver that is over 21?

...and if those same ones that were so shytfaces they couldn't even stand up would drive drunk; do you think they would quit if the age was raised to 21?

Yeah supporting 18 year olds having the right to legally drink is the same thing as supporting Rwandan's kidnapping and coercing 10 year olds into killing their families and it's also the same thing as approving of the entire European legal system. <sarcasm>

say what? LOL...the argument has been presented that being able to kill in war is tantamount to being a responsible adult. thats the point I was making.
You misinterpreted 3 of my postulates.

[Dzone]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Oh, hey, Q-girl, good post

[Klash]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

say what? LOL...the argument has been presented that being able to kill in war is tantamount to being a responsible adult. thats the point I was making.
You misinterpreted 3 of my postulates.

I didn't misinterpret anything; you are trying to confuse the issue. The correlation of the government deeming individuals mature enough to kill in war was made under the context of a volunteer army (you know, like America's; you know the country where the legal drinking age is being questioned) not your random Rwandan bullsh1t analogy that came out of left field and has nothing to do with this debate.

and if you care to point out how I misinterpreted your other two postulates; I'll show your flawed reasoning there too, if you like!

[Dzone]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Youre projection of your own flawed reasoning on to me as "bullshit" is completely accurate...Nice job.

[Klash]

Re: lawmakers to lower the drinking

Youre projection of your own flawed reasoning on to me as "bullshit" is completely accurate...Nice job.

It's easy to make assertions with nothing to back it up but I'll just take that to mean don't have anything!!