"Outside" texts

[kite]

So what do you folks think about texts such as the Gnostic gospels, Kabalistic writings, etc.? I've been reading some of the Gnostic gospels and some seem genuine, and others not so much. I've also been reading the gospel of Solomon which is pretty interesting to say the least. The reason I ask is this, I'm Christian but I also feel that there's much more than just the Bible. I mean everything couldn't fit into a single book and if it could who the hell would read it all? To me the Bible is the Word of God but more in a cliftnotes kinda way as well as history.

[solidground]

Re: "Outside" texts

imo i would actually take in what those are about more so then the most common bible, just because they would be less tampered with.

[daved150]

Re: "Outside" texts

I am not a religious person, so I am probably a little biased in my answer. I can speak slightly to the Kabbalah. It is traditionally associated or had been with the jewish faith and is really related to spiritual "teachings" that revolve around self-transformation and what you need to do activate your human potential. And yet typical - it is interpreted differently by different "scholars".

And then you had the whole "pop" cult following started by Madonna.

And there have been christian scholars who have studied the Kabalah.

IMO, and no offense to anyone who thinks otherwise, it just becomes to complicated because it is basteridized in many respects to suit different people's purposes.

bingo!! thats why i belong to the church of dave!!

[Sal Paradise]

Re: "Outside" texts

The only issue I have with any of the "good books" is the simply underlying fact that they were written by man. I hold no more credence in the Bible than i do in Sam and the FireFly.
A man wrote it, just because his name was Matthew, Mark, Luke or John why would that be any more siginificant that if it was written by Sal Paradise.
I no longer consider myself a religous person, religions have to many politics involved with them - I do however consider myself very spiritual.
In that regard if any of the writings help you obtain a higher level of spirituality then I say go for it and with everything along similar lines - read it, appreciate it and make the decison based on those readings for yourself whether or not it's worth a damn.

I am reading a book called the
The World's Wisdom: Sacred Texts of the World's Religions, "This is a compendium of sacred texts of the religions of the world, written as a companion for Huston Smith's classic The Religions of Man."

It's a good read and excellent intro to other books of the same venue.

Another book as stated above - The Religions of Man is also excellent.

Sal

[supasaiyan99]

Re: "Outside" texts

bingo!! thats why i belong to the church of dave!!

Same here bro. I attend a Baptist church on the regular, but my philosophy/way of life revolves around Catholicism, Baptist, Pentecoastal, Judaism, Buddhist, and Islam.

[GBAGH]

Re: "Outside" texts

If you keep your personal relationship strong with Christ you don't need any of those books. Thats a fact! I find comfort in reading the different books, but if I had to go through life without them I know that I would be just fine.

[Rolsroyce]

Re: "Outside" texts

I believe whats in the Holy Bible is what was meant to be included. I do know of some mistranslations in the book but its up to us to research the translations and know if they are correct or not. I feel if those other books dont conflict with the writings in the bible then they are ok but otherwise are heresy and not to be believed. The catholic church has twisted many things about Christianity, back long ago in the early centuries AD... For instance the steeple you see on all the churches came from a pegan sun god named baal, it was called the obelisk..Now its accepted as everyday christianity...Sorry, kinda getting off subject..

[Klash]

Re: "Outside" texts

I think anything that provokes thought and/or introspection can't be bad.

People of faith believe what they want to believe and they will find a way to help support their unsupported beliefs with any unsupported historical documents. You have "Christians" that believe all of mankind will reunite with Christ eventually. You have "Christians" that believe once saved always saved. There are even Christians that believe in reincarnation. Even Sylvia Brown considers herself a Christian. :/

I don't really understand the idea of giving historical books automatic authority over my beliefs, though. I think it is more productive to ask yourself, why you find certain ideas and beliefs attractive. Are the beliefs improving your perception: of your gods character? of the afterlife? of spiritual Justice? of your own importance or potential? Because they are benefiting you in some way. What is that particular belief satisfying? Most of the time I think it is fear. Fear of: death? injustice? insignificance?

[Sal Paradise]

Re: "Outside" texts

Nice reply Klash.

Very nice


Sal

[Rolsroyce]

Re: "Outside" texts

I think anything that provokes thought and/or introspection can't be bad.

People of faith believe what they want to believe and they will find a way to help support their unsupported beliefs with any unsupported historical documents. You have "Christians" that believe all of mankind will reunite with Christ eventually. You have "Christians" that believe once saved always saved. There are even Christians that believe in reincarnation. Even Sylvia Brown considers herself a Christian. :/

I don't really understand the idea of giving historical books automatic authority over my beliefs, though. I think it is more productive to ask yourself, why you find certain ideas and beliefs attractive. Are the beliefs improving your perception: of your gods character? of the afterlife? of spiritual Justice? of your own importance or potential? Because they are benefiting you in some way. What is that particular belief satisfying? Most of the time I think it is fear. Fear of: death? injustice? insignificance?

you say they are christians but if they believe in reincarnation etc... then they are false christians meaning not really christians at all. You talk about beliefs and God like they conform to you when actually you must conform to Him. But if you are an atheist you can not understand or comprehend what I am talking about. I think you might be right in a way about the fear,death, ect. in that these things are probably reasons that someone initially seeks out God and his understanding. God and religion is something that will be argued about till the end of humanity that is something we can all agree on so for all you that dont believe or see yourself as god or whatever we can just agree to disagree and be friends.

[daved150]

Re: "Outside" texts

Same here bro. I attend a Baptist church on the regular, but my philosophy/way of life revolves around Catholicism, Baptist, Pentecoastal, Judaism, Buddhist, and Islam.

yea, i was raised catholic...catholic schools, communion, all that jazz. i really dont believe i HAVE to go to a specific building to talk with god. i dont believe he really cares where you choose to rap with him and i dont think he cares when you rap with him. i think he knows what your saying/thinking and understands were your comming from. if he can help ya out and your the type that is willing to help others, he'll do what he can and if your a dichead, he blows ya off. he gets pissed here and there and he'll spank ya if you get out of line, but all in all, at the end of the day, he loves ya. thats how i see it...thats the church of dave, lol.

[Sal Paradise]

Re: "Outside" texts

I'm with you Dave.
I was raised Catholic and went through all the same RITUALS.
I personally have a very strogn disdain for the Catholic church.
The same church that preaches not to worship other gods before Him, yet they have specific prayers and days the they worship mary, specfic saints, etc, etc,.
Sounds a bit full of bull if you ask me.

I also don't think you need to attend a special building to worship.

As far as "GOD" and "Christ" being the only true way....well - I would sure hate to see what happens to all the Buddist who have lived better lives than most Christians. I used to have that argument with a very, very good frined of mine. He would constantly say if you don't believe in Jesus then you're going to hell or whatever else. I always wondered what about some of the very fine upstanding people who follow the Jewish faith. Damn shame about them being damned to hell for not being of Christian faith.

Are the wrong because they have a different belief even though they me be very fine people who help others and do not judge people??

It's a shame they picked the wrong religion.

Not that anyone is saying that here - I just thought I would add it to the mix.
It reminds me of the South Park episode, one of the very few I have seen about the Mormons being the only ones who picked the right faith.
I must admit I nearly pissed myself when I saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0uIVD1vtIw

It's worth a look!!!



Sal

[Rolsroyce]

Re: "Outside" texts

its interesting that you say all that Sal, I totally understand how you feel about the catholic chuch being hypocritical and also i understand what you mean about the people that live good honest lives but chose another religion than chritianity. Actually those folks will be OK or will have the oportunity to be OK and I will explain why I say that later. I have to go run some errands but I will write ya back on this in a bit...

[solidground]

Re: "Outside" texts

i pretty much completely agree with dave..i dont think god is as judgemental as religions make "him" seem..under organized religion, you have to obide by certain rules to get into heaven or for him to accept you/to be a good christian..Its just the religions way of filling people with fear so theyll live their lives as good people in society..imo, if your being a good person only because you are in fear, its fake- So why would god punish those who are not christian but are genuinely good people by not letting them into heaven? Meanwhile some people who ask for his forgiveness and do the catholic or christian traditions are awful people but hed let them in?? Organized religion to me is way too political and can easily be used to sway a huge group of people through propaganda, thats why it exists imo. Im a very spiritual person and i feel i am closer to god then many people who attend church, so to think theyll end up in a great place and i wont is rediculous to me.

[daved150]

Re: "Outside" texts

its interesting that you say all that Sal, I totally understand how you feel about the catholic chuch being hypocritical and also i understand what you mean about the people that live good honest lives but chose another religion than chritianity. Actually those folks will be OK or will have the oportunity to be OK and I will explain why I say that later. I have to go run some errands but I will write ya back on this in a bit...

NICE!! so, i got that going for me!! i'm in no way dissing ya rr. i agree 100% with sal. me and god, we're cool. i did have a few prob's, but i've put that all behind me (after all, who am i to question my creator??!! he has to do what he has to do...i'm cool). i accept he's the man. i accept the fact that jesus did his thing for me (very cool dude for sure) and i dont believe i have to say specific things, at specific times and sing specific songs in order to hang with him later. we got it like that! oh and klash...i didnt forget our deal!! just were a "klash" hat!