talking with God

[PL456]

johnny, i have to disagree with you a little bit. IMO, we are given the rules to live by, and we have a free will to choose to follow fully or to "be a good person" and not follow fully. this is how I have been convicted. God is loving and merciful, but He is most certainly just. justice will be done, and part of justice is punishment for those who have not laid everything down and followed Christ's example. there are those who are "born again" and know fully the path we should follow but choose not to. the Bible says that for them, the punishment will be even worse than those who are ignorant of God. It is by fully committing to Jesus that we can expect to have Him arguing our case for us as we stand before His father on judgement day. if we fully commit to Christ and have faith AND works done by faith, will God see us through Jesus and our sins will be purged. faith alone will not get it done. you are correct, IMO, by saying that we will be given rewards, not punished, but I believe that will only occur if we fully lay down and ACT on our faith, living for Jesus alone. this is why Jesus says, and I love this, as I said above that is will be easier for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to gain Heaven. I think we all qualify as "rich men (and women)" here in terms of earthly wealth. that is really convicting to me.

[JohnnyB]

Bro that commit was made after the discussion with the rich young ruler, so it's not a general statement. It was about someone that was trying to get to the kingdom by keeping the law, not by faith.

Romans 4, it's faith alone that makes us rightous before God not any works that are done. Works done in faith are works that you know nothing about because it's not you doing them it's the Lord doing them through you.

Remember those in Matthew 7:21-23 they claimed to prophesy, drive out demons and perform miricles in His name but He says to them to depart from Him, He never knew them. So doing works in His name does nothing if they are not of Him. There's a differance between of and for, of Him is Him working through you, for Him is you try to do a work.

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" II Timothy 1:9

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5

It's not by anything we do that makes us right with God, do we do good works, yes.

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" Ephesians 2:10

Walk in them not work in them or try to work on them. He ordained them for you, you don't decide what they are so you can do them. We are saved by grace not by keeping the law or doing works.

The law bring us to the knowledge of sin Romans 3 and the need for a Savior. But once we're saved we don't need the law or works to keep us saved.

JohnnyB

[maya]

When I said judgment seat of christ, that's what I meant. Rewards. At the great white throne judgment is for the people who didn't recieve Jesus as Lord. I think the point is this. We aren't perfect and won't be. But there should be a desire in our hearts to please God. The desire should be there. We shouldn't be off doing the same old things we did before we were saved. You can't say "I believe in Christ and by the way I'm getting wasted tonight. Your desires change.

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by maya
When I said judgment seat of christ, that's what I meant. Rewards. At the great white throne judgment is for the people who didn't recieve Jesus as Lord. I think the point is this. We aren't perfect and won't be. But there should be a desire in our hearts to please God. The desire should be there. We shouldn't be off doing the same old things we did before we were saved. You can't say "I believe in Christ and by the way I'm getting wasted tonight. Your desires change.

I agree, we can't do those things anynore because when we do, we feel convicted about. When you don't know the Lord you can do them and it means nothing.

That's what Romans 7 is about, here's the last few verses

"For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh thelaw of sin."

When your not a Christian you don't have this stuggle.

JohnnyB

[maya]

EXACTLY

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by maya
EXACTLY

Isn't wonderful, I'm slow but I'll get it just give me time

JohnnyB

[maya]

[maya]

John 12:35
A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he's going. While you have the light, believe the light that you may become sons of light.

[PL456]

well, just to stir the pot again here.....just for the sake of argument..

What would you guys say...just say "if" this is the way it went down when you get to the seat of judgement???? I know, personally, I would not do too well...

[maya]

God wouldn't see me and my faults... He'd see the blood of Christ....

[mick-G]

I personally would not try to judge myself. Everyone has faults. You are still God's child PL456

[T-Man007]

This is a good discussion.

I'm with Jonny in how I've come to interpret righteousness. It is found in believing. Romans 1:16-17 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek (Gentiles). For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith"."

The only statement about works is in James 2:17 which says "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself." Basically, this means that faith without deeds is useless. We've all heard it a thousand times, you must bear fruit. If you think you are saved and yet you bear no fruit you are kidding yourself. IMO

Romans is the gospel. Learn Romans, learn what God expects of you as a christian and you will be able to please him greatly.

[PL456]

yeah..guys..I agree all the way around. like I said, just wanted to get things stirred up alittle, get us all thinking..
Well, I did speak to my pastor today...I thought about this little thread here, and so...(yall know me!)..I asked him what he thought. He said it straight up...said basically, if youve truly changed and become a new person in Christ, then the actions will follow. Likewise, if you only have a weak faith, then you probably won't be changed enough in your heart to follow through with action, which you do to please God. Similarly, if you are only doing things to get "right" with God, you havent changed in your heart, truly. But, in the end, he said, it is "God's call" as to where we end up...so true.