I hate to say it... BUT

[Got Gear?]

I don't think you guys should start a war on Iraq.

Weapons of mass destruction or not.

In America.. if you use a gun to commit a crime, you're barred from owning a gun for a period of time. But at some point, you're allowed to own a gun.

Telling Iraq they can't have these weapons is the same sort of thing. Except instead of telling your own people they're not allowed to own a weapon, you're trying to tell a whole other country (one the doesn't particularly like you already).

Regardless of how menaceing a country/person is... you can't punish this country/person until they've commited a crime.

[Got Gear?]

I agree... If Sudam uses any of these weapons, I'll back the US 110% in bombing the shit outa Iraq.

But anyway you look at it: Punishing Iraq (which will mean the loss of innocent people's lives) because of something Sudam "might" do.. it's too much if you ask me.

On another line of thought teekahty: What do you hope to achieve from war on Iraq? The last one didn't go so well... and Sudam is still here. Even if you do get him this time, you honestly don't think someone will take his place with a VERY similar agenda? Do you really think that bombing the shit out of IRAQ will get rid of their weapons? Will keep them from produceing/buying more weapons?

America does NOT have the support of the Iraqi people. You're only going to make them hate you more. And unless you invade Iraq and make it into the 53rd state, they're just gonna rebuild after a decade or so and be even more hostile.

I understand America's position, and it's a noble one at that. I just don't think there's any way you can disarm Iraq without taking control of the IRAQ government (53rd state).

[pudgy]

iraq has already used weapons of mass destruction , they gassed the kurds in northern iraq.

[Sachet]

Originally posted by Got Gear?
America does NOT have the support of the Iraqi people. You're only going to make them hate you more. And unless you invade Iraq and make it into the 53rd state, they're just gonna rebuild after a decade or so and be even more hostile.

No, we don't have the support of the Iraqi people, or I should say the Iraqi MEN.
They're a 3rd world country who rely on Sadam for food & treat their women like breeding stock.
They do not broadcast TV shows from around the world.. ya know?!
No cable or HBO for the average folks over there, if they even have access to a TV!
Most have no clue what Canadians or Americans are like with the exception of what they're told by Sadam's broadcasts.
SoOo sure, they're going to support the person who tosses their starving families crumbs here & there.

I understand America's position, and it's a noble one at that. I just don't think there's any way you can disarm Iraq without taking control of the IRAQ government (53rd state).

Who says we wouldn't help interested parties in setting up a democracy this time around?

[darmadoc]

What happens if we get rid of Saddam and an islamic fundamentalist theocracy takes over. It will be just like having another Iran, Pakistan, Yemen (insert fundamentalist country here). They will hate us more than Saddam does. Further, Saddam is interested in one thing, keeping Saddam in power. He has never attacked America, and lacks the capability to do so. Unless I miss my guess the gas and helicopters used on the Kurds was probably purchased with our help. He used to be the USA's good buddy back when Cheney and Rummy were rolling in his oil money.

No one has proven any connection between Saddam and Al Quaeda and in fact Bush chastised the CIA for publicly admitting as much.

If we want to go after the bad guys, lets get Al Quaeda. Just because their harder to find doesn't mean we should beat on somebody else.

[BODY]

politics are a *****! but I personally feel my ass is #1 so screw that war monger he has shown his true colors in the past. When he causes you or your community serious damage and loss it might be more clear. I dont wish it on you but you cant rule the possibilty out w/ a maniac! In america after you are convicted of a felony you can never own a weapon again or vote either. I would rather have peace but it's not my choice.

[LOCO]

I'm 100% with Got Gear!

[JohnnyB]

Did I miss something, the USA has 52 states, we only have 50.

JohnnyB

[bigjim33]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
Did I miss something, the USA has 52 states, we only have 50.

JohnnyB

i am a little confused by that as well

[darmadoc]

But if any country can attack any other country that MIGHT be a threat than what are we going to do if North Korea attacks the South or if Cina attacks Taiwan. Who decides what is a legitamate "pre-emptive" strike. Is the USA the arbitrer of world morality?

[Got Gear?]

Sorry guys.. I never claimed to know much geography. 50 States it is..

Seems like it's almost a 50/50 split in opinion.

Sachet: I would love to see a democracy setup in Iraq. I just don't think it's going to happen. The people have to want a democracy...BADLY.. enough that they're willing to risk war, starvation, and potentially the lives of themselves and their families. Now I'm sure some of the Iraqi people would like to see a democratic government, I don't think they want it badly enough. Take India for example.. the US has been trying to aid in the setup of a democratic goverment there. It's only just starting to fall into place these last few years.... after decades of trying, much war/conflict and many personal hardships. And these are people who were crying for a democratic government to begin with...

The people of the US wanted it so badly, they left their homelands, their families, and most of their possesions to travell to the Land of the Free....

[Skarn]

Originally posted by darmadoc
But if any country can attack any other country that MIGHT be a threat than what are we going to do if North Korea attacks the South or if Cina attacks Taiwan. Who decides what is a legitamate "pre-emptive" strike. Is the USA the arbitrer of world morality?

It's called the United Nations. United being the key term here....it's not just the US, but the US is the key player in the UN. Peolple need to understand that Desert Storm was NOT just the US attacking Iraq...there were MANY other countries that either directly participated or sent (promised to send at least) money to aid the effort. Even Russia aided us.

[LOCO]

if the UN decides to attack, then i'm all for it. but if they say no, then i'm against it too. i think they have better facts, reasons, etc. than i or any of us have.
lately the US seems to disagree with UN a lot. i have also heard of plans of leaving the UN.
the other night a priest was interviewed on one of those art bell shows (space man i think it was, or whatever his name is) about this whole thing that's going on, and he said that the next 'big war' that the US will be fighting will be against the UN.
wonder if that's gonna happen... but the way things are going, i wouldn't be supprised...

[Got Gear?]

Right now, the US is trying to strong-arm the UN into taking action (war). The only major backer the US has right now is Britian, and Britian is getting stuck in between a rock and a hard place right now. Britian wants to support the US, but has to also keep good relations with it's neighbours whom all apose a war.

Wasn't I hearing on the news today that some countries that belong to the UN (Germany and France?) Are thinking about joining together to specifically oppose the US and a war on Iraq? If this happens, then the UN will NOT got to war and if the US attacks Iraq it will be against UN approval? What happens at this point? Does the US get kicked out of the UN? Will the UN take steps to stop the US?

Canada figures that they're the last place Iraq is going to use a weapon of mass destruction on. Canada is also broke and has crap for an Army. So we're gonna sit this one out... But don't worry... we may not charge into a fight with you guys, but if they start fighting dirty or shit goes bad. We've got your back!

[darmadoc]

Unfortunately, no other country is going to stop the US if it goes to war in Iraq. The only people who can stop the US government are the US citizens, and frankly I'm not sure the government gives a crap what they think anymore, either.