Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

[superdog]

I`m really busy, gym sessions are tough to schedule so sometimes I have to skip cardio. But summer is here and I wanna look badass so gotta drop some fat. Right now I`m running var 75mg ed so the catabolic issue is mitigated somewhat.

I can go running at night when it`s cool and I have free time. So assume for the poll 3 40 jogging sessions a week with a 4th 40 session in the gym on the stepper or bike, etc. Also,

Is jogging good or bad?

I`ve heard it`s the ulitmate fat burner.
And
I`ve heard that it burns muscle mass.

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

yes it good......u can do it 5, 6 or 7 days..depending on your goals, the more cardio u do, THE MORE MUSCLE U WILL HAVE, DENSER AND THICKERS....., STILL DEPENDING ON HOW MANY MNS U DO

DOES JOGGIN/CARDIO, BURNS MUSCLES, THE ANSWER IS YES AND NO..YES IF U DO IT FOR TOOOO LONG, AND NO, IF U KEEP EM SHORT....

NOW IT DEPENDS ON YOUR BEEF, AND HOW MUCH MUSCLE U CARRY..
USUALLY THE FIRST 15MNS, U BURN WATER WEIGHT, NEXT 15 MNS IF FAT AND AFTER 45MNS IS MUSCLE, BUT AGAIN DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH BEEF U CARRY

[T-Man007]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

The only concern I have is with the fact that the heart has more testosterone receptors than any other muscle. In other words, every cycle you do of test if you are training cardio it's a proven fact that the heart will grow. If you continue to do this your heart can become significantly larger which is very unhealthy. Now, some people say it goes back to normal but I've yet to see any scientific data to support that. After all, do your other muscles go back to normal? No, or else no one would ever get bigger. I think if you must do cardio while on test you should limit it to 20-30 minutes and you should stay in the fat burning zone (about 65% of max). Making the heart work hard will have the same effect as making any other muscle. But, if you are east on it then it shouldn't have the effect. Imagine if you trained your biceps half ass while on cycle, do you think they would grow very much? Probably not.

[mick-G]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Bro, i do jogging all the time. I do my first 30-35minutes jogging and then the last 10minutes i do one an incline..I use LifeFitness treadmills, so iam doing at least 13.5 incline with going about 3.6 mph. I will follow it with a 5minute cool down. I do this about 5 days a wk sometimes 6. It is important that you watch that you don't go over your MHR. I may be a good investment to get one of those Polar montiors. Like Mikey said thou, it depends alot on your build and metabo. If you have a high metabo, i wouldn't suggest doing it for as long a period.

[jazzjackrabbit]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

I have to disagree with you T-Man!
Cardio won't make your heart grow while lifting wheight (even without steroid) can. It's a proven fact.
Heart is mostly made of fast fibers which are those we are training to grow in our muscles. These fibers respond to heavy lifting. In cardio training those fibers are not involved. Look at marathonians they don't have big legs while they train them a lot.
The heart is the same as the legs. Doing a lot of cardio won't make them grow.
Left ventricular hypertrophy is mostly seen in strength athletes. Maybe doing cardio can avoid that.

I share the same opinion as Big Mike.
I used to run a lot. Too much, too long, too often cardio will eat your muscle.
I don't run anymore half marathons for 'fun' (lol), 45 minutes is what I run at most now. Last year doing 20 minutes in the morning before breakfast nearly every day worked great to lose fat and not to burn too much muscle.

[T-Man007]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

I have to disagree with you T-Man!
Cardio won't make your heart grow while lifting wheight (even without steroid) can. It's a proven fact.
Heart is mostly made of fast fibers which are those we are training to grow in our muscles. These fibers respond to heavy lifting. In cardio training those fibers are not involved. Look at marathonians they don't have big legs while they train them a lot.
The heart is the same as the legs. Doing a lot of cardio won't make them grow.
Left ventricular hypertrophy is mostly seen in strength athletes. Maybe doing cardio can avoid that.

I share the same opinion as Big Mike.
I used to run a lot. Too much, too long, too often cardio will eat your muscle.
I don't run anymore half marathons for 'fun' (lol), 45 minutes is what I run at most now. Last year doing 20 minutes in the morning before breakfast nearly every day worked great to lose fat and not to burn too much muscle.

Well, I stand corrected! Damn, I hate to be wrong but that's what happens when you don't continue learning. LOL I first learned of the heart thing several years ago and apparently some Austrailian scientists proved there is some, but minimal effect aas has on heart size. However, recent studies by Finnish scientists have proven that even though aas only has minor effects on heart size the combonation of aas and GH has significant effects on heart size. Read this:

The debate on the effect of anabolic substances on the structure of the heart reached another phase, since Finnish scientists studied twenty local bodybuilders who had just finished their cycles. Steroids don’t damage the heart, the researchers found. But the combination of steroids and growth hormone does.

Context

Since the eighties scientists have been discussing whether steroids enlarge the heart, when several sports investigators learned steroid use was associated with enlargement of the left ventricular mass – the part of the heart that pumps oxygenated blood through the body. An overdeveloped left ventricle causes arrhythmia and, in severe cases, death. In 2001 Australian physicians found the hypertrophy in clean strength athletes and postulated that this condition was caused by weight training, not steroid use. They also found that the hypertrophy didn’t impair their subjects’ health.

The new Finnish study, published in the International Journal of Sports Medicine in the summer of 2003, doesn’t contradict the Australian study. Nevertheless, it provides insight into the relationship between anabolic substances and heart hypertrophy.

Study

The Finnish ran an advertorial in a bodybuilding magazine on their project. Twenty bodybuilders, who had planned to do a cycle and bought their medication on the black market, responded. Before their cycle started the bodybuilders had their medication checked and analysed by the pharmacological department of the university. Not unnecessary, because up to fifty percent of the European black steroids may be counterfeited, according to the latest estimates.

Sixteen bodybuilders used steroids only. The weekly doses varied from a few hundred milligrams to more than thousand milligrams.

Four athletes stacked their steroids with growth hormone. All four used moderate dosages of two, three or four IU’s during four to six weeks. The growth hormone was injected once daily, mostly in the evening. In this group steroid doses were 1,3 times higher than in the steroids only group.

When their cycles ended, the bodybuilders had their hearts examined. The table below summarizes some results. The control group consisted of fifteen young males with active life styles who didn’t engage in weight training.

Results

Control(15), Steroids(16), Steroids + GH(4)
Heart rate 66 bpm 65 bpm 65 bpm
Systolic blood pressure 131 mmHg 131 mmHg 130 mmHg
Diastolic blood pressure 77 mmHg 76 mmHg 89 mmHg
Left ventricular weight 167 g 257 g 342 g
Ratio left ventricular weight: length 93 g/m 141 g/m 191 g/m
Relative wall thinkness 0,37 0,42 0,53
Ratio early peak flow velocity: peak atrial flow velocity (E/A ratio) 1,66 1,72 1,29

Steroids and the combination of steroids and growth hormone change the structure of the heart, the table suggests. But that doesn’t have any consequences for the cardiovascular health of at least the steroid users. Their diastolic blood pressure – reported to rise phenomenally in some steroid related medical horror-stories – was fine, and more interestingly, their E/A ratio improved. Cardiologists use the E/A ratio to measure the hearts efficiency. According to the table, in the steroids only group deterioration of the heart muscle didn’t occur.

But growth hormone, well, that is another story. The table speaks for itself. The higher steroid doses that the GH-users took can only explain a small part of the serious ventricular hypertrophy, the Finnish stress. They suspect that the lowering effect of androgens on the IGF-1-binding protein 3 concentrations causes the ventricular growth.

Discussion

So far not so good. But there is more. The Finnish discovered something very interesting about the nature of the relationship between anabolic aids and hypertrophy of the heart: it’s direct. For example, the Finnish asked their subjects for how many years they had been using steroids. The answers varied from one to twelve years. Statistically the relationship between lifetime steroid use and the E/A ratio was weak. On the other hand, the mean steroid dose of the present cycle was a strong predictor of variables like E/A ratio, ventricular weight of relative wall thickness.

This means that cycles don’t have a cumulative effect on heart hypertrophy. The Finnish discovered that even the pronounced impact of cycles with added growth hormone wears off. That became evident when they investigated an athlete three times: when he just finished a five weeks cycle of steroids and growth hormone, after a wash out period of 237 days, and just after he completed a steroids only cycle. The results are in the figure below.



Of course a study with twenty users is not conclusive. But the study suggests that

just like the Australians proved before, steroids are not as disastrous for the heart morphology as some agencies want you to believe;
the combination with growth hormone does however add considerable cardiovascular risks to steroid cycles; and
the deleterious effects wear off during wash out periods.
Especially athletes in their late thirties and older should take their wash out periods seriously. The age of the subjects in the Finnish study ranged from 25 to 43. In this population age was the strongest predictor of the E/A ratio. The older they were, the lower their ratio ratio. (The Pearson’s correlation coefficient was –0.70. The coefficient of mean steroid dose and E/A ratio was –0.42.)

Sources

Karila TAM, Karjalainen JE, Mantysaari MJ, Viitasalo MT, Seppala TA. Anabolic Androgenic Steroids Produce Sose-Dependent Increase in Left Ventricular Mass in Power Athletes, and this Effect is Potentiated by Concomitant Use of Growth Hormone. Int J Sports Med 2003; 24: 337-343.

Sader MA, Griffiths KA, McCredie RJ, Handelsman DJ, Celermajer DS. Androgenic anabolic steroids and arterial structure and function in male bodybuilders. J Am Coll Cardiol. 2001 Jan;37(1):224-30.

[jazzjackrabbit]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Very interesting T-Man!
I'm interested in heart and aas since 2 years because of a surgery I had. I will have MRI every 2 years now to check my heart. I'm my own guinea pig and I'll tell you what low doses cycles and regular cardio while do to my heart in a few years! lol

[superdog]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Thanks for all the repilies. I was worried about going jogging too much but now I`ll do it as I feel when I have time and energy. I think 40 min is pushing it just a touch (for me, my body that is) but I think pushing it just a touch is just what my body needs.

[Stackt]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Try doing cardio on an empty stomach in the morning if you cant fit it later in your schedule .I usually go fro 30 min in the morning if I dont have time I go after workingout .I dont know but running in the morning on an empty stomach was hard at first cause I got hungry in the middle of running but once I got my stamina up it feels good burning fat .I go at least 3-5 times week if I were you doing no cardio left me a big pregnant stomach with muscles .

[Rage]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Thanks for all the repilies. I was worried about going jogging too much but now I`ll do it as I feel when I have time and energy. I think 40 min is pushing it just a touch (for me, my body that is) but I think pushing it just a touch is just what my body needs.

Hey Superdog, I have to agree with the 45 minute limit for cardio. And I have to agree with the jogging before breakfast to burn fat theory. I plan on jogging this fall in the mornings before breakfast. Right now its too hot to do cardio outside my air-conditioned gym!

[superdog]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Guys, I`ve been doing cardio about 4x a week and three of those are running. Fat is comming off fast but not dropping too much size in the chest or delts.

Running, it`s all good.

[T-Man007]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

Guys, I`ve been doing cardio about 4x a week and three of those are running. Fat is comming off fast but not dropping too much size in the chest or delts.

Running, it`s all good.

Good to hear. I hate to run. I wish I liked it more. I've been out on the mountain bike a lot lately. But that's more like a run/walk because you have to work up hills and then you get to coast down. But, my average HR stays up there so I guess it's working. It's just hard to get it in some weeks. We've been getting pounded with rain, and you don't ride in the rain here. Colorado has the highest number of humans him by lightening every year. Not my idea of fun. Between rain and work, I've missed the last 10 days. But, I'm going Friday and again this weekend.

[SMILEY FACE]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

good man....its all about patient

[NATE]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

I get shin splints so bad it kills me...havent ran or jogged in years.

[jazzjackrabbit]

Re: Is jogging good or bad w/aas?

I get shin splints so bad it kills me...havent ran or jogged in years.

I had the same problem when I started running. At first start slowly and after some time you won't have this problem anymore.
Now I only have shin splints when I hold too much water (femara worked great).