Deca + Tren GYNO

[Soldier]

Hi Comrades,
Please can you advise me of a preventative measures to prevent Gyno induced by DECA + TREN. I have been told Winny/Proviron helps but I want I Med if possible to control the progestagenic Gyno! is there anything what can stop this from happening?

[rado]

You can take liquidex through out your cycle, although your cholesterol levels might be up a bit, but also will prvent from bloat as well. Or you can get you some Nolva in case, works really good from what I hear. Good luck and welcome to FG kid.

[prolangtum]

Make sure you run some sort of test, since they both supress you natty test, and this could lead to gyno possibly. Nolvadex should take care of the rest, since progesterone raises igf-1 nolva lowers it.

[Soldier]

Cheers!!
If i got myself 2 boxs of Arimedex and 2 Boxs of Tamoxifen and some Proviron and Clomid to tapper down on would this be OK?

I will take Test Prop 200/300mg pw with Tren 150 mg pw.

[prolangtum]

Too low on the Tren, try 100mg eod, 100mg prop eod, and wahtever deca dosage you like, say 300mg a week.

[Soldier]

Prolantum:

So you thing the Ant-e's i suggested will cover any Gyno? coz that is my main concern. As dosages of AS can be tolerated but Gyno can not.
So would Arimedex/Nolv/Proviron/Clomid protect me against TREN + DECA induced GYNO????

"I AWAIT YOUR COUNSEL"

[prolangtum]

I really dont think you should have too much too worry about on those dosages. I dont even see the need for arimidex on 100mg of prop eod. If anything run the a-dex at .25mg eod. If at all. Test is the only substance that really aromatizes, Deca does, but negligble. You have plenty. This is what i would really liek to see your cycle:

Test Prop 100mg eod
Tren 150mg eod
Deca 300mg week

Take .25mg of arimidex eod
Take nolva only if nips get sore and itchy
Not sure on how to dose proviron

[Soldier]

Cheers!!
p.s I am a regular to Turkey - Marmaris and i even got offered HGH, so will be heading back this year.

[prolangtum]

What kind of HGH (brand) was it out of curiosity?

[Soldier]

Has anynone heard of Bromocriptine!! it is supposed to prevent progestenic Gyno? have just heard it metioned time to time can anyone shed some light on this??

[Soldier]

Genetropin 15/16 iu pen if i remember correctly- looked legit to me but i aint no Doc!

[prolangtum]

Ive posted this badboy about a bajillion times:

Progestins & Gyno
Before you decide that blocking progesterone is the solution to gyno, consider a few things. There is not one case of progesterone induced gyno in the medical literature EXCEPT in those cases where strong synthetic progestins, like medroxyprogesterone, were administered. In these cases the gyno is due to suppression of LH and testosterone by the progestin, NOT by a direct effect on breast tissue. On a cycle your LH is already suppressed by the AAS anyway.

Breasts have two components: alveoli and ducts. The alveoli are what secrete milk; they drain into ducts. Gynecomastia is the result of ductal hyperplasia, not alveolar hyperplasia. Estrogen stimulates the ductal tissue, while progesterone stimulates the alveoli. Alveolar hyperplasia does not contribute to gyno. If you want to read more on breast development, I suggest visiting this site:

http://www.endotext.org/male/male14/male14.htm

In various tissues throughout the body, including cultured neoplastic breast tissue, progestins downregulate the estrogen receptor (1). Progesterone receptor blockers like RU-486 upregulate the estrogen receptor (1). This is consistent with the fact that RU-486 CAUSES gyno in patients in whom it is used to treat Cushing's disease and meningiomas (2).

Progestins are also anti-estrogenic in that they induce the enzyme 17-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase, which catalyzes the oxidation of estradiol to the less potent estrone. Progestins also induce estrogen sulfotransferase, the enzyme which catalyzes the sulfation and inactivation of estrogens.

So do progestins contribute to gyno, and if yes, how so? If you visit the link above you will see that progestins increase IGF-1 levels. As that article indicated, IGF-1 is essential to the the development of mammary tissue. This is also how it is believed that progestins in HRT or oral contraceptives contribute to breast cancer: by increasing IGF-1 levels. But as bodybuilders we are always trying to maximize IGF-1. Hence the futility of trying to lower IGF-1 by blocking progestins. The other anabolics we use will elevate (hopefully) IGF-1, while blocking the progesterone receptor will only increase the levels and activity of estrogen by the mechanisms outlined above.

Two drugs have shown the greatest efficacy in treating gyno: Nolvadex, and Raloxifene, another SERM. Nolvadex has the longest track record, but a recent trial with Raloxifene showed it to be superior to Nolvadex. With these drugs you attack the problem at its source: the estrogen receptor. You get the added benefit of lowering IGF-1. Not a good thing for making gains, but important for treating gyno.

(1) Int J Biol Markers 1995 Jan-Mar;10(1):47-54
Progesterone agonists and antagonists induce down- and up-regulation of estrogen receptors and estrogen inducible genes in human breast cancer cell lines.

(2) J Neurosurg 1991 Jun;74(6):861-6
Treatment of unresectable meningiomas with the antiprogesterone agent mifepristone.
Grunberg SM, Weiss MH, Spitz IM, Ahmadi J, Sadun A, Russell CA, Lucci L, Stevenson LL.
Department of Neurosurgery, University of Southern California School of Medicine, Los Angeles

[Soldier]

Sorry !!
Just asking annoying questions!! Thanks for the info- that is the last question on this Gyno issue from me.

Thanks.