Help with Cutting Cycle

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Hey guys. I'm looking to do a cutter for this summer.

I'm looking to do a Prop, Tren, Stanna, T3, Clen Cycle

I was looking to run the cycle like so:

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Prop - 100mg (EOD) | wk: 1 - 10
Trenbolone Enanthate - 75mg (EOD) | wk: 1 - 10
Winstrol Tabs - 50mg (ED) | wk: 4 - 10
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I also have some clen and T3 and I just wanted to know how i would add these into the cycle in terms of which week, dosages and for how long

Cheers....

[Brick_Layer_3D]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Also again just regarding the winstrol. Is it better to run it at the start of the cycle or keep it where its at (wk 4 onwards)


Cheers

[bowbow]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Better switch to tren acetate.

[Brick_Layer_3D]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

I can only get my hands on tren E

[Michelle Hayden]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Tren E you dont have to do eod, but twice a wk will work well.

[FUZO]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Tren E was excellent when I used it

[Brick_Layer_3D]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

In terms of cycling the T3 and Clen.

How would i do this ?

[G-reg]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

any tren is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!
its my fav!

[FUZO]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

In terms of cycling the T3 and Clen.

How would i do this ?

use the fitnessgeared search function and you will come across a post of a schedule of t3 and clen

[FUZO]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

ok i'll help CLEN


Clen FAQ by ANDY13



Clenbuterol FAQ: Everything you need to know about Clen
I wrote this because of all the confusion that surrounds this drug. Enjoy.

What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, Clenbuterol is not FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35 hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump and injectable form. Doses are very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere in the range of 5-8 tablets per day for men and 1-4 tablets a day for women is most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after 6-8 weeks when body temperature drops back to normal. It's anabolic/anti-catabolic properties fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine short half life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming bananas and oranges or supplementing with GNC potassium tablets at 200-400mg a day taken before bed on an empty stomach.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taken at the first signs of a headache. You may need to take double the recommended dose.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness, vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be used by non AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, Carbs must be included in the diet. Keto diet do not work well in this case.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although some people find ECA stacks harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation before a workout for an extra kick, although its diuretic effects may shift electrolyte balance. Drink more water if you use Caffeine.

What else do I need to know?

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day.

Example of a first cycle:

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to normal gradually)
Day14: 60mcg
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100mcg
Day14: 80mcg
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water: 1.5-2 gallons a day.

All brands are not equal when it comes to Clen, different brands will yield different results.

That about covers everything.

[FUZO]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

-3...all you need to know by BigAndy69 Part 1 and 2

by BigAndy69

Disclaimer


T3 is not a drug that should be taken lightly. It’s a very potent thyroid hormone. Messing with your natural hormone levels is very dangerous and unpredictable. The potential for complications is very high, and abuse can lead to thyroid disease and low thyroid output not only immediately upon discontinuation, but also later in life.



There is no such thing as safe use of T3 outside of a medical setting. There is only “safer” use. Use at your own risk.



Introduction: What is T3?



This article is pushing 2000 words, so here’s a link for anyone who’s interested: http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbo...roid/index.html



What about T4?



Bodybuilders should not use T4. It’s a much weaker drug designed for long term use in patients with chronic thyroid disease. 100mcg of T4 corresponds to 25mcg of T3 and offers equivalent thyroid support; however, this does not translate to equal weight loss benefits. It has made itself on sources’ lists simply because it is widely available and extremely cheap.



Is T3 catabolic?



It may shock many people to know that T3 is NOT catabolic per se. Cortical steroids are catabolic drugs that attack muscle tissue directly regardless of caloric intake; T3 does not. It is a very potent calorie burner and it does not discriminate between carbohydrates, protein and fat. Unlike DNP, it has no protein sparing properties. T3 is also more likely to burn muscle than fat in lean users (10-12% BF), but this can be said for any extreme drop in caloric intake and uptake such as starvation diets (Caloric intake <10 X BW).



Muscle loss can be avoided with the use of anabolic agents. T3’s alleged catabolic properties have become legendary. Excessive amounts of T3 (more than 75mcg), will have a very strong calorie burning effect, and since some bodybuilder use 150 mcg, it’s easy to see why such misinformation has been so prevalent. The average bodybuilder will not need several grams of steroids to counter a reasonable dose of T3. There is no need to use more than 75mcg-100mcg. Going beyond this dose will cause more harm than good, as massive doses of steroids need to be used to counter the muscle loss, further stressing the body for minimal, if any additional benefits.



I think I’ve lost 20 lbs of muscle!



T3 can also give your muscles an extremely flat look and very soft feel. This side effect of extreme glycogen depletion can have a very profound psychological impact in bodybuilders. It often feels and looks like muscle loss when it’s simply a lack of muscle “pump” because of restricted blood flow to that area and depletion of glycogen stores in muscles. Generally, carbohydrate loading does not solve this problem. “Pumping up” (or training for that matter) brings more blood into the muscles and is a temporary albeit effective solution. Clenbuterol and certain steroids can offset the lack of muscle pump because these drugs tend to “harden up” users by bringing more blood into to the muscles.





Are steroids absolutely necessary on T3?


This is very dependent on the user. Diet must be flawless, only reasonable doses should be considered (50mcg) and the user must know his body to a tee. Those who don’t know what that last statement entails should not even consider T3. This is a veteran drug and should not be used by bodybuilders who are new to the game or do not have a deep understanding of how there bodies react to certain foods and training philosophies.



T3 can be used alone or better yet with Clenbuterol without fear of muscle loss in overly fat people (20-25% BF). This is not recommended, however, since these people will generally return to overeating upon discontinuation of their cycle and may likely end up with more weight than they started with.





How should I eat on T3?


Protein should be kept at 1.5-2g per lb of bodyweight. The majority of protein should come from lean meats. Shakes can be used, but should not be heavily relied on as they are more likely to be turned into glucose and used immediately for energy. Caloric reduction should come from carbs and fat only.







What is T3 used for?


Fat-loss: The main use for T3.



Increase Nutrient Uptake: Not very well known, but this is a great use for T3. Doses between 6.25-12.5mcg do not shutdown endogenous thyroid output. T3 at this dose can be used to add LBM and help in keeping the fat off. When doses are kept at 6.25-12.5mcg, muscles are full and rock hard, and energy is through the roof. At these light doses, it’s common for people to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day because there bodies are making more efficient use of the food they eat.



Can I permanently shutdown my Thyroid?


Simply put, NO, it can’t happen. Natural thyroid production will be completely shutdown for a good period of time after using T3, but it will eventually recover. Bruce Kneller posted this study on the Testosterone website:



N Engl J Med 1975 Oct 2;293(14):681-4

Recovery of pituitary thyrotropic function after withdrawal of prolonged thyroid-suppression therapy.

Vagenakis AG, Braverman LE, Azizi F, Portinay GI, Ingbar SH.

The pattern of thyrotropin secretion was analyzed in seven euthyroid women, before and after withdrawal of long-term thyroid hormone, by serial measurements of thyroid 131l uptake, serum thyroxine, tri-iodothyronine, and thyrotropin concentrations, and the response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone. During exogenous hormone administration, 131l uptake was suppressed, and serum thyrotropin concentrations before and after administration of thyrotropin-releasing hormone were undetectable.

After withdrawal of exogenous hormone, thyrotropin secretory function was transiently impaired, as indicated by undetectable basal thyrotropin concentrations together with absence of response to thyrotropin-releasing hormone, and subsequently by normal values of basal thyrotropin concentration and normal responses to releasing hormone while serum thyroxine and tri-iodothyronine concentrations were subnormal.

Decreased thyrotropin reserve persisted for two to five weeks. Detectable values of serum thyrotropin (less than 1.2 muU per milliliter) and a normal 131l uptake usually occurred concurrently in two to three weeks. Serum thyroxine concentration returned to normal at least four weeks after hormone withdrawal.



Basically, it is extremely important to eat cleanly and keep up with cardio for at least 4 weeks and up to 6 weeks following a T3 cycle. It’s also very important to ramp down properly and not use any drug that have an effect on metabolism and thyroid function, i.e. Clen, Ephedrine, Steroids, DNP, T2…



Calories should be kept in check, even lowered in some cases, and High Intensity Cardio is a must; at least 20mins, 3times a week. L-Tyrosine can be used at 1-3g a day to help thyroid function, but its effectiveness is debatable.



Switching to a higher carb, lower fat and lower protein diet is crucial in helping your thyroid bounce back after a cycle. A three-day carb up would be a good idea following a T3 cycle. This study demonstrates how important carbohydrates are for normal thyroid function. (Note: Some people seem to think of carbs as Lucky Charms and toast when there are far better carb choices that won’t make you look like the Michelin Man.)



Dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism during overnutrition.
Danforth E Jr, Horton ES, O'Connell M, Sims EA, Burger AG, Ingbar SH, Braverman L, Vagenakis AG.

Diet-induced alterations in thyroid hormone concentrations have been found in studies of long-term (7 mo) overfeeding in man (the Vermont Study). In these studies of weight gain in normal weight volunteers, increased calories were required to maintain weight after gain over and above that predicted from their increased size. This was associated with increased concentrations of triiodothyronine (T3). No change in the caloric requirement to maintain weight or concentrations of T3 was found after long-term (3 mo) fat overfeeding. In studies of short-term overfeeding (3 wk) the serum concentrations of T3 and its metabolic clearance were increased, resulting in a marked increase in the production rate of T3 irrespective of the composition of the diet overfed (carbohydrate 29.6 +/- 2.1 to 54.0 +/- 3.3, fat 28.2 +/- 3.7 to 49.1 +/- 3.4, and protein 31.2 +/- 2.1 to 53.2 +/- 3.7 microgram/d per 70 kg). Thyroxine production was unaltered by overfeeding (93.7 +/- 6.5 vs. 89.2 +/- 4.9 microgram/d per 70 kg). It is still speculative whether these dietary-induced alterations in thyroid hormone metabolism are responsible for the simultaneously increased expenditure of energy in these subjects and therefore might represent an important physiological adaptation in times of caloric affluence. During the weight-maintenance phases of the long-term overfeeding studies, concentrations of T3 were increased when carbohydrate was isocalorically substituted for fat in the diet. In short-term studies the peripheral concentrations of T3 and reverse T3 found during fasting were mimicked in direction, if not in degree, with equal or hypocaloric diets restricted in carbohydrate were fed. It is apparent from these studies that the caloric content as well as the composition of the diet, specifically, the carbohydrate content, can be important factors in regulating the peripheral metabolism of thyroid hormones.



Part 2



A post cycle crash is inevitable; this is the time when your diet really matters.



So how do I cycle this stuff?


T3/Clen/Anavar Cycle


Anavar is the single best steroid to stack with T3. Its anti-catabolic properties are unmatched and it will not shut down the HPTA. There’s nothing like simultaneous sex hormone and thyroid hormone shutdown, I bet it feels great. Primobolan at 200mg a week would be a good substitute since it doesn’t shut you down. Dbol at 10-15mg taken in the morning can also be used but Arimidex must be included with the Dbol. T3 increases the amount of beta-3-adregenic receptors (by 500%!) in white adipose tissue, i.e. the fat that covers muscle. Since clen exerts most of its effect on the same receptors, the combination with T3 would yield quite a strong synergistic effect. T3/Clen may be too much for the heart in some people.



T3:



12.5mcg for 5-7 days (optional but recommended)
37.5mcg for 5 days
75mcg for 15 days
50mcg for 5 days
37.5mcg for 5 days
25mcg for 5 days
12.5 mcg for 5 days
6.25mcg for 5-7 days



Clen:



30 days: 60-120mcg ED. Use clen from the first 37.5mcg dose to the last 25mcg dose

[ketsugo]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Also again just regarding the winstrol. Is it better to run it at the start of the cycle or keep it where its at (wk 4 onwards)


Cheers

Hey first thing- I think your cycle idead are awesome! Now me, Im a winny lover, I prefer to walk around ripped everyday, Im 45 so Its pretty much getting more and more difficult to do so for that reason LOL. I actually have success getting ripped to the bone on dbol- BUT I start with dbol to maintain my power while I eat and train to burn calories better. I use T-3 and clen religeuosly year round by cycling on and off repeatedly. Any puffiness or water I personally feel I counteract with clen/T-3 and especially winny that I change from dbol to winny or deca to winny at the end- It dries me out. Thats just my experience with myself and the guys I train for contests. However everyone responds somewhat differently depending on a host of factors ie genetics, lifestyle etc etc.

[ketsugo]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Holy crap- >Love that Bigandy info above my last post very cool. Looks like you got some good info Brick to review....................

[Brick_Layer_3D]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Cheers guys/.

Much appreciated.

[ketsugo]

Re: Help with Cutting Cycle

Im reiterating the T-3 info on the article- good stuff- so many guys that will use all kinds of toxic compounds are scared to death of T-3 when so many of the issues are just myths, I like how the article dispels a few, very good Info FUZO