Winny tabs as effective as injections?

[slickwillymw35]

im gonna try the injectable winny. personally id rather take a pill ed than shoot myself. but ive heard that injectable is the way to go but ive heard w/winny it really doesnt matter. i cant get my hands on the 50mg tabs anyways so idont wanna take 25 2mg tabs ed to reach the 50mg. lol plus ill be taking tren and prop so it really makes no difference cause i have to shoot ed or eod anyways.

[CJWolf]

Originally posted by prolangtum
The difference is minimal at best. In the scheme of things, 50mgs of oral versus 50mg of injectable, wont mean 5lbs of gains. Maybe 1/4 lb. You will save one pass through the liver, but it will still pass once. No way aroudn it.

how does it save a pass through the liver ... it's only passed through the liver to cleave the methyl group on the 17th carbon ... and that bond can't be cleaved twice ... i'm just wondering how injecting is less hepatoxic than oral ...

[BigD]

I agree CJ, it's NO less toxic going through orally. It's ineffective in oral or IM administration until it goes through the liver once. Also, it doesn't lose much, if any, potency via oral administration. I know, b/c I'm getting good results from 20mg/day of oral winny. If i was only getting 10mg out of that 20... that would be less than even 60's bbers took, and that was barely enough to count even then. The only way it could be less harsh is that tabs are all metabolized within a few hours of taking them, whereas injectable would tend to crystallize in the muscle and be more slowly absorbed over the course of the day. For the price, you just can't be tabs

[prolangtum]

It passes through the liver twice on oral adminstartion, like all orals do. It only passes once after injection, to cleave the methyl group as you said.

[BigD]

Yes, it passes twice EITHER way. Oral, it passes from stomach to blood, then into the liver where the 17aa group is cleaved off, rendering if effective. THAT is the part that stresses the liver, having to cleave off that group. Then, it circulates, does it's job, and is eventually deactivated by the liver. In IM, it just goes directly into the blood, but it WON'T do any work until it's had that 17aa cleaved off first, which still stresses the liver the same amount. At least, that's how I read it in those freakin' hard pre-med classes! Those suck

[CJWolf]

Originally posted by prolangtum
It passes through the liver twice on oral adminstartion, like all orals do. It only passes once after injection, to cleave the methyl group as you said.

oral or injection it still has to be released into the bloodstream and then processed by the liver only ONCE to remove the CH3 ... it can't be processed twice ...

i don't see how the liver can process something 2x, if it only has to remove one bond ...

[BigD]

It's activated the first time by cleaving off the 17aa group... 2nd time around, it's deactivated, or destroyed. The first pass is the one that makes the liver work overtime... the 2nd pass doesn't bother it. That's why it has to be 17aa, to survive the "first-pass-effect." I'm not sure if it can pass THROUGH the liver twice... but I think it hits it twice, and I know it goes through the harsh way no matter how you take it

[CJWolf]

i agree with you, but no matter what it's processed the same way oral or injectable ... that's all i was saying

[BigD]

Well yeah, I agree too! Mmm.... first-pass-effect... *drools on his tabs*...