Opinions...

[T-Man007]

12 weeker

Turnabol wk 1-4 50 mg/day
Enth wk 1-12 250 mg/wk
EQ wk 1-12 400 mg/wk
Winny wk 8-12 50 mg/day
T3 (for 5 weeks in the middle)
Clen (with the T3)
Proviron (?)
Clomid pct

Now, remember, I always do low doses and this is about double my normal dose. I usually only do a test 250 mg/wk (or every 5 days) cycle and gain easy, but I want to lean down. Way down. I want single digit BF again. I've been as heavy as 244 at 5'10" and that's high enough for me. Now, I want to be lean and stay lean. I also want my strength to go up.

1 - For what I want to accomplish will this work? Will this give me ample strength and lean mass gains?

2 - Do I need any other anti e? I think I might have slight gyno and want to reverse it.

Thanks

[T-Man007]

Re: Opinions...

WTF? Is there not anyone who can say if they agree or disagree with this cycle for strength and lean mass?

Come on guys. I need to know if I need to go in a different direction. I've always done mass cycles, and some of these are new to me and I'm looking for personal opinions.

[mick-G]

Re: Opinions...

Well, to be honest i didn't run the t-bol like dbol. I waited till around wk 5, after the test started to kick in and ran it for 6wks; 3wks @50mg ed and 3wks @60mg ed. You can also run it longer if you want to. Imo, you don't need the winstrol if you run it like this with the test and eq, you will see plenty of tightening and vascularity. Oh, are you using Iranian?? If so i didn't see much if any bloat from it. Actually it kicked in fairly quickly. I will be using mine in my next lean mass cycle, because of this. As far as clen/t-3, i don't use them. Proviron, id use it towards the end of the cycle to solidify/and for extra tightening of your gains and will also help in recovery later towards pct. Clomid i run 5 days @100mg and the rest of the 28 days @50mg ed.

[Skarhead]

Re: Opinions...

lean mass gains = diet you know that... AAS will build you muscle and prevent catabolism, other than that th e "LBM gains" are 1000% diet. I dont think you need clen OR t3 to do it either but, that's up to you to run, but i never had a problem slimming down with the 3 Cs...

Turnabol... a mild anabolic to begin with for 4 weeks only seems like a waste to me

[mick-G]

Re: Opinions...

Skar, we all know about diet, but there are certain aas that will enhance lean mass more so than others. Turanabol, i agree needs to be run at least for 6wks imo. Also, having used it now, i will say that it is to me not like dbol in its effect as a jumpstart. It in my experience it is better used after the test has kicked in. Then with the proper diet/cardio you will get the full benefit of the oral and its effect on the tightening and hardening of the muscle.

[Skarhead]

Re: Opinions...

Tbol is real mild w. little sides I would even go more than 6 weeks...

The thing is mick all the time i just see complex cycles w exotic gear thats supposed to bring someones phsique to some strange level that apparently diet + training + some test couldnt do... (T-man's cycle isnt, but when you start talking about what gear he should add, it sounds like it could be "one of those" cycles

I dont reallyb elive in thse compounds buildling "better" lean mass... of course soem will make you hold water (but it goes away after cycle)... Personally i think those exotic gear SUCK.... iveo nly used one (masteron) and as far as "adding" LBM i probably coudlnt've do ne it better nattily. the only thing that grew off my master was my powder sources bank acct.

what I do belive is the hard hitting compounds (test dbol, drol, eq, tren) will build the muscle you need coupled w/ diet....thats just my .02...

[mick-G]

Re: Opinions...

Actually equipoise is a mild androgen. I myself try to stay away from compounds that may have a hard effect on the renal system. Turanabol, yes is more mild than say drol or the ester tren, but you have to factor in also sides and the effect it may have on you later. I will be using drol in my next cycle with hg test and that is it. Moderation is key when using aas i believe.

[T-Man007]

Re: Opinions...

I know about the diet guys. However, everyone knows that you can't hold onto ALL your muscle mass while dieting. So, by adding lean mass AAS I not only eliminate the bloated water retention by I also get to keep all of my current muscle mass and add "quality" mass.

Here's the difference Skar. You take two guys that are exaclty the same and give one a cycle of test cyp and drol and the other a cycle of EQ and t-bol and ahve them both do and eat the exact same things. The one on the EQ and t-bol will have better quality gains because they gain less bloat. I've seen it a hundred times. Some guy gains 30 pounds on his cycle and then when the water goes away and he's finished his pct he's only gained 15 solid pounds. However, you take the same guy and put him on some lean mass cycle and yea, he might only gain 20 total pounds, but he'll keep almost all of it. And, he wont look like a bloated sea cow for three months doing it. That's the difference. I don't want to get bloated. I know all about diet, however, I have a gainers bodies and it's much easier for me to gain than to lose.

[lsu777]

Re: Opinions...

if you want stength then replace then winny with var. other then that looks good bro.

[T-Man007]

Re: Opinions...

Tbol is real mild w. little sides I would even go more than 6 weeks...

The thing is mick all the time i just see complex cycles w exotic gear thats supposed to bring someones phsique to some strange level that apparently diet + training + some test couldnt do... (T-man's cycle isnt, but when you start talking about what gear he should add, it sounds like it could be "one of those" cycles

I dont reallyb elive in thse compounds buildling "better" lean mass... of course soem will make you hold water (but it goes away after cycle)... Personally i think those exotic gear SUCK.... iveo nly used one (masteron) and as far as "adding" LBM i probably coudlnt've do ne it better nattily. the only thing that grew off my master was my powder sources bank acct.

what I do belive is the hard hitting compounds (test dbol, drol, eq, tren) will build the muscle you need coupled w/ diet....thats just my .02...

What do you consider "exotic" gear?

Now, in your quote you say "The thing is mick all the time i just see complex cycles w exotic gear thats supposed to bring someones phsique to some strange level that apparently diet + training + some test couldnt do... ". Do you really believe that? Do you really think Ronnie could be Mr O. with only diet + training + some test? Come on, surely you don't believe that. I know you don't beleive a man coudl bench over 900 pounds with just diet + training + test, do you?

Different aas have different benefits across the board. And then, each one will have different effects on different people. Some guys I know weigh more than 30 pounds less than I do and they take 3 times the amount I do and don't get the same strength or size gains. In those cases I know the difference is one, or all, of three things. Genetics, diet and/or training.

[T-Man007]

Re: Opinions...

if you want stength then replace then winny with var. other then that looks good bro.

Ok, that's the second drop the winny I've gotten, so the winny is out. I've never ran var. How much and for how long? Thanks bro.

[T-Man007]

Re: Opinions...

Ok, revised:

Tbol wk 4-10 50 mg/day
Enth wk 1-12 250 mg/wk
EQ wk 1-12 400 mg/wk
T3 (for 5 weeks in the middle)
Clen (with the T3)
Proviron (towards the end)
Clomid pct


Someone (lsu777) mentioned var to increase strength, if I add it, how much and where?

[lsu777]

Re: Opinions...

all you should need is 50mg/day. I would take it the same time as the TBol(weeks 4-10). Personally i would drop the Tbol and run superdrol @ 30mg/day weeks 1-4 and then switch to var so the cycle looks like this:

Superdrol wk 1-430mg/day
Var wk 4-10 50 mg/day
Enth wk 1-12 250 mg/wk
EQ wk 1-12 400 mg/wk
T3 (for 5 weeks in the middle)
Clen (with the T3)
Proviron (towards the end)
Clomid pct

I know superdrol sounds ***** but trust me you would be surprised. All it is, is methylated masteron. People are gaining 8-15lbs of lean muscle in 4 weeks and this is long time aas vets not newbies.

[Skarhead]

Re: Opinions...

What do you consider "exotic" gear?

Now, in your quote you say "The thing is mick all the time i just see complex cycles w exotic gear thats supposed to bring someones phsique to some strange level that apparently diet + training + some test couldnt do... ". Do you really believe that? Do you really think Ronnie could be Mr O. with only diet + training + some test? Come on, surely you don't believe that. I know you don't beleive a man coudl bench over 900 pounds with just diet + training + test, do you?

Different aas have different benefits across the board. And then, each one will have different effects on different people. Some guys I know weigh more than 30 pounds less than I do and they take 3 times the amount I do and don't get the same strength or size gains. In those cases I know the difference is one, or all, of three things. Genetics, diet and/or training.

No and i think mentineed exotic comopunds being used for comp only.

I disagree about the EQ turnabol... vs drol... sure you will look prettier, but i think in the end the drol will have MORE muscle

[lsu777]

Re: Opinions...

not really skar. mainly just give u a ton of water to piss out and boom there goes all the strength you gained too. remember the person that makes the best strength gains usually (95%) of the time will make the best size gains. This is why I really believe lean bulking is the way to go. You can gain strength and keep it unlike when people bloat, they just piss it all away.