L-dex and gains

[PARABOLAN]

how much does a femara pill go for normally?

[jipped genes]

thanks fellas that kinda morphed into somthing else but it was all very informative

[gearedup]

These studies are bullshit I had a study where anastrazole raised IGF-1! They are worthless for our use!

[superchicken]

Originally posted by gearedup
These studies are bullshit I had a study where anastrazole raised IGF-1! They are worthless for our use!

yes i agree!

how can you base the results on a ONE OR TWO MEDICAL STUDIES!?

you cant!

i dont buy into the whole ldex lower igf letro raises it etc...

theres is simply not a statistically significant amount of eveidence to prove that these truely act this way!


there are so many variables it isnt funny, also, quoting which drugs will supress a certain % of estrogen is also meaningless, these are based on rounded number doses. who decided that 1mg of anastrozole is the ideal amount to use for the study, and 2.5mg letrozole, and 25mg aromasin? to say aromasin suppresses igf more than ldex, and to also say it suppresses estrogen better, well ever though of changing the dose?

EVERYTHING IS DOSE RELATED! if ldex truely does suppress igf 18%, i bet a grand it wont if you only take .25mg a day,and ill also bet the drugs you take and the genetics you have will all skew the effects.

also, its very feasible in some people that it will raise igf, just like in that letro study, for all we know, letro could hurt igf the most out of all of them.

so many people say dont take ldex cause you want some estrogen cause it has benefits, or it messes up lipid profiles, or it lowers igf etc... the point of taking an anti aromatose is not to eliminate estrogen, it is to controll the amount of estrogen. just because you take an anti aromatose doesnt mean your eliminating estrogen!

this is a very hot topic of debate, and in my opinion, people have taken this too far. some people are writing what they beleive as gospel or medical fact based on a very faulty premesis.

yes we have to work with what we have but just because member #125 doesnt gain on test doesnt mean test doesnt work.

im sure nobody here would take a single persons experience and try to make conclusions out of it, so why should we do this with the topic at hand?

[PARABOLAN]

well gearedup what is ur input on this?? u have more experience than i do... is it true that femara increases igf1 levels and the rest of anti e's lower them??

[PARABOLAN]

and plz dont tell me arimidex and aromasin hinder ur gains while femara doesnt!!

[Drveejay11]

Originally posted by PARABOLAN
well gearedup what is ur input on this?? u have more experience than i do... is it true that femara increases igf1 levels and the rest of anti e's lower them??

Yep!

[PARABOLAN]

come on man so ur saying femara is the best anti e to get more muscle??

[superchicken]

you guys didnt listen to anything me or gearedup said i guess........

[Drveejay11]

Originally posted by PARABOLAN
come on man so ur saying femara is the best anti e to get more muscle??

NOPE.......I was just responding to your post.

I'll tell you this though: If IGF-1 is actually raised like femara SUPPOSEDLY does and lowered like aromasin supposedly does, then YES, in theory you should get better gains from femara.

Also, femara does not reduce Est. as effectively as Aromasin so you will also get some added growth alone from the extra E floating around!

BUT.........I still prefer the Aromasin d/t the lack of ill effects on Chol profile.

[superchicken]

if you want some estoegn still aorund, and want to use aromasin cause supposedly it keeps your lipid prfile bteter, its very very simple:

USE LESS AROMASIN.

ill say it again, now the studies which showed x% of estrogen suppression can very well be beleived for the diff drugs, if your not taking steroids and you take the same dose they did. BUT.....

we take steroids, we aromatise more test into estrogen.

taking 1mg ed ldex will suppress estrogen more than .25mg ed, this is NOT an all or nothing concenpt, its DOSE RELATED

ok


now we have some 80 proof vodka and some 120 proof vodka.
studies show that that 1 dose of 120 proof vodka will get you more more drunk than 1 dose of 80 proof vodka. 1 dose = 1 shot

now the drinker only wants to take a shot of 80 proof vodka, cause a shot of 120 proof vodka will get them too drunk. but the brand of vodka the bar carries in the 80 proof version, has been rumered to have a negative effect on lipid profiles, and this person doesnt want his lipid profile worsened. the brand of vodka for the 120 proof has been rumored not to affect lipid profiles
but this person also doesnt want to take a shot of the 120 proof vodka because he will become too drunk. what is he to do????
well...... the person thinks rationally for a second and decides to take less than 1 shot of the 120 proof vodka, so that it will get the same amount of drunkness that a shot of 80 proof vodka would have. he decided to lower his dose, and took 2/3 of a shot instead.

[bigjim33]

Originally posted by superchicken


taking 1mg ed ldex will suppress estrogen more than .25mg ed, this is NOT an all or nothing concenpt, its DOSE RELATED

exactly!

[jipped genes]

thanks superchicken the lightbulb over my head is on now. I am sure I will use L-dex from now on regardless just because I don't like looking like marshmallow man.

[Billy_Bathgate]

My thoughts...

The studies are all crap.

Ive seen Ari LOWERING and RAISING igf. Ive seen Femera LOWERING IT as well. Same with Aromasin. Ever study, its a different number too.. I personally find it irrelevant anyways, think about the 1-2k of anabolics you are on. Do you think the 20% will make that much difference? I sure as hell dont.

The benefits GREATLY out weight 20% IGF! Id rather be healthy instead of bloated, titties, and sky rocket BP!

As for the choices. I rank femera LAST. Why, because by the mechanisms of action, Femera works by first increasing the aromatic protien levels and then inhibiting their conversion. Once the drug is removed, the levels are still high..meaning you have even more estrogen wanting to convert before you started! Its not that its a bad drug, but Id keep an eye out after stopping the drug administration.

Aromasin is far superior in cost and effectivness.

They all work though...

[slobberknocker]

IMO, people are over obsessing about which anti-E's are the best. I'm just using nolv from now on.