Question for you chemists

[Billy_Bathgate]

Spidey is on track with his reply.

Whast it look like? Burnt toast lol

Dont feel bad, Ive ruind 8 grams before

[conger]

Well hey, Look at it this way, it oughta be pretty sterile. (Doh!)

[jackdaddy]

It looks perfectly normal. It was already in injectable form and looks exactly like it did.....a beautiful clear golden liquid. Here's a picture of it. It's not like 200 degrees is scorching....I was able to pick up the bottle with my bare hands. ..........yea....I'm reaching here & maybe some wishful thinking, but you gotta be optomistic.

[jackdaddy]

[spidey]

Originally posted by Redfoot
heat breaks/denatures proteins (steroids, Hormones) and they usually do not reanneal (come back together). At the length of exposure, it will be highly unlikely that it will reanneal. Sorry bro.

What are you telling this guy?? There is a world of difference between proteins and small molecules like steroids. It doesn't even make sense to talk about denaturing small molecules, LOL. You probably shouldn't be responding to chemical questions as you obviously don't know any chemistry.

jackdaddy- I'd say from the color that it is probably fine. You say it hasn't darkened at all right? Air oxidation would certainly be accompanied by a darkening of the color.

Don't listen to these guys telling you it is bad and you should throw it out. LOL, these guys don't sound like they know anything about organic chemistry in general, little lone the thermal stability of steroidal hormones.

-Spidey

[LOCO]

any details on the thermal stability of steroidal hormones spidey?

[superchicken]

id use it. you might have lowered the potency some but test base doesnt even melt until over 300 f

[jackdaddy]

cool.......now that's the kinda news I want to hear. Lie to me if you have to!

[gonzaox]

Pharmaceutical companies circulate the hormones through their systems @ temps of up to 212 for 72 hours per batch to avoid bacteria buld up in their very complex systems. Key word here being CIRCULATE. I don't know if the product being sedentary changes anything. Maybe not. I'd say shoot it. Nothing to lose.

Gonz

[hummerluv]

u sure???

Originally posted by jackdaddy
cool.......now that's the kinda news I want to hear. Lie to me if you have to!

Only because it is what u wanna hear doesnt mean it s the right or safe thing to do. dont be an ass

[Billy_Bathgate]

Spidey, you seem to be more familiar with the thermodynamics of hormones than I am.

I have always been very leary of heating any of my hormones for the possibility of breakdown, not that I know x amount of heat will do y amount of damage or anything, but just kinda playing it safer than sorry.

What temps or duration will have a negative impact on the hormones themselves, not including oxidation?

[spidey]

Originally posted by Billy_Bathgate
Spidey, you seem to be more familiar with the thermodynamics of hormones than I am.

I have always been very leary of heating any of my hormones for the possibility of breakdown, not that I know x amount of heat will do y amount of damage or anything, but just kinda playing it safer than sorry.

What temps or duration will have a negative impact on the hormones themselves, not including oxidation?

Oxidation is really the main worry. It takes a hell of a lot of heat to start disrupting carbon-carbon bonds, Throw in a little O2 from the air though and things can start to happen. I bet if you flushed the vial with N2 or argon, you could heat it on broil without hurting the hormone. I wouldn't suggest that though. At that high of heat, things like trans-esterification might be possible where some of the test prop would become test benzoate (if benzyl benzoate were present in the mix).

Different AAS will have differing sensitivities to oxidation. Luckely for jackdaddy, testosterone is not one of the more sensitive ones. General rule of thumb: The more double bonds (particularly conjugated double bonds) in the molecule, the more sensitive to air oxidation. So I predict that something like trenbolone will be more sensitive than testosterone. I am not totally sure how sensitive they are though. That's why I asked the questions about any darkening of color. Any oxidation will certainly cause a darkening of the color. No darkening=probably just fine.

This is all academic however. Baking your oils is not the best way to insure sterility. Staph spores will survive several hundred degrees for instance. My best friend found that out the hard way. He baked his gear at 250 deg F for 2 hours and ended up with a staph infection anyway. The best way to insure sterility is to steril filter through a 0.2 micron filter. That is small enough to even take out staph spores. Proof of principle: I took my friend's staph infested gear and filtered it and he didn't have anymore problems. I also injected that same gear into myself and had no infections.

Don't let anyone tell you that 0.45 micron filters are good enough; they aren't. Staph spores are small enough to make it through 0.45 micron filters, but not 0.2 micron filters.

-Spidey

[spidey]

Originally posted by gonzaox
Pharmaceutical companies circulate the hormones through their systems @ temps of up to 212 for 72 hours per batch to avoid bacteria buld up in their very complex systems. Key word here being CIRCULATE. I don't know if the product being sedentary changes anything. Maybe not. I'd say shoot it. Nothing to lose.

Gonz

I didn't know how the Pharm companies worked. Do you work for one?

I bet there is no air in their circulation system. Like I said, in the absence of air, these small molecule steroids are pretty damn stable.

-Spidey

[spidey]

Originally posted by teekahty
both ways spidey hot and cold if you would please

I believe I have answered the "hot" question. As for cold, it is pretty simple. The colder the temp, the less air oxidation will occur. At room temp in oil solution, I expect these things would be good for a year or two before I would start to worry. In the fridge, probably 5 years give or take. These are just educated guesses of course. I have never done a stability study on any of these steroids. I know they have been done though, at least for the ones that are approved for medical use here in the USA (testosterone esters, Nandrolone decanoate, Oxandrolone, maybe a few others). These studies are probably available on Medline.

Incidently, I'm not sure that a little oxidation would be terribly harmful anyway. Those of you who make your fina from pellets with a kit are injecting a few oxidation products anyway. I know because I actually isolated the tren acetate from the pellets and chromatographically purified it. You wouldn't believe all the orange-brown shit left on the top of the column. That is most likely oxidation products of trenbolone. I have done this three times and, on average, isolate about 90-92% of label claims. The rest was probably oxidatively destroyed. With synovex, I isolated 19.95 grams test prop out of a possible 20 grams and no dark stuff on the column. That kind of supports my earlier supposition that trenbolone should be more sensitive to air oxidation.

-Spidey

[jackdaddy]

Thanks for the info Spidey. I was hoping someone actually had some hard data to prove/disprove whether the test was still good.
Not that I don't appreciate everyone else ringing in with their opinion (that's what we're here for), but I really wanted more than an educated guess.

Thanks again bro!