2 questions on cycle

[Gearo]

Hi Bros,

I'm on my 4th week of 500 mg Test Enanthate, 30 mg Dbol ed and 300 mg of Deca (3rd cycle).

1st Question : Should I use any anti e's, my nipples are very sensitive, I have very small lumps under my nipples that I kept from my last cycle. I don't want to use anti e's right now because I like the sensation of bloating. Do I have the choice ?

2nd question : until now, I've felt the kick in of Dbol which gave mo some strenght, but I'm still waiting for the test to give me real muscle (not only bloat), Today is the beginning of the 4th week.
When should I expect serious things to begin ?

Thank you guys

[HeHateMe]

You should really start noticing the full effects of the test & deca in the coming weeks. I would add 10mg/d of Nolvadex and keep a VERY close eye on things (you may have to up the dose) since you have small lumps already. Gyno is not something to mess around with.

[HeHateMe]

btw, deca probably wasn't the best choice if you're worried about gyno. Progesterone induced gyno can only be controlled by the abortion pill (fuck I can't recall the name - RU something). I believe some say bromocriptine can help, but I'm not totally sure on this.

[BossDJ02]

Originally posted by HeHateMe
You should really start noticing the full effects of the test & deca in the coming weeks. I would add 10mg/d of Nolvadex and keep a VERY close eye on things (you may have to up the dose) since you have small lumps already. Gyno is not something to mess around with.

i agree

[blacklabelprop]

if i ever begin to notice any signs of gyno im gonig to hit my armidex and hit it hard
not trying to flame you but this is a no brainer, if you notice any signs of gyno hit the anti-e's
the worst that could happen is you wont need them but you will have that peace of mind that you are trying to reduce your risk
good luck with it bro

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by blacklabelprop
if i ever begin to notice any signs of gyno im gonig to hit my armidex and hit it hard
not trying to flame you but this is a no brainer, if you notice any signs of gyno hit the anti-e's
the worst that could happen is you wont need them but you will have that peace of mind that you are trying to reduce your risk
good luck with it bro

Call it a no brainer if you like, but if gyno sets in there aren't any anti-e's getting rid of it. If a person is gyno sensitive then they should take a low-moderate dose of arim or nolv throughout cycle.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by HeHateMe
btw, deca probably wasn't the best choice if you're worried about gyno. Progesterone induced gyno can only be controlled by the abortion pill (fuck I can't recall the name - RU something). I believe some say bromocriptine can help, but I'm not totally sure on this.

This is correct. I'd use eq from now on.......and if you're worried I would drop the deca now or try and find some bromo or whatever is needed.

[Gearo]

Thanks Bros for being helpful,
I'm in the end of my 4th cycle, and I'm beginning to notice some changes on my body, but it's still not "Waou", I really count on this cycle to have clear and noticeable changes (I'm only 170 pounds)
Any advice would be more than welcome

[Pheedno]

DECA does NOT aromatize into progesterone. If a test is run, progesterone risk is next to nothing

[itchybag]

up your test to 600 mg and eat more protein

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by Pheedno
DECA does NOT aromatize into progesterone. If a test is run, progesterone risk is next to nothing

Where did you hear that bro? Everything I've heard and read says that deca has a lower tendency to convert to estrogen, but it is still a risk. And it is known to have some progestin activity in the body.

Also, why did you say it "does NOT aromatize into progesterone" and then say the risk is next to nothing? Either it does or it doesn't. I'd just like to know where you got that info.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Pheedno
DECA does NOT aromatize into progesterone. If a test is run, progesterone risk is next to nothing

No steroid aromatizes to progesterone; progesterone does not have an aromatic A ring. It does aromatize slightly to estrogen but not significantly and that is not what makes it a gyno risk.

Nandrolone binds pretty well to the progesterone receptors (PR). It is a progestin in its own right without undergoing any structural changes. Add in some test as you suggest and gyno will become even more likely.

For gyno to develop, 3 or 4 hormones must be present: estrogen, progesterone, IGF-1, and prolactin. By adding in test (which will aromatize and increase estrogen levels), you have just added in 2 of the 4 ingredients for gyno, estrogen (from aromatization of test) and a progestin (deca). On top of that, most AS increase IGF-1 so now you have 3 out of 4 neccessary ingredients of gyno.

If I were Gearo, I would add in a good anti-estrogen now or gyno is on the horizon. He already is showing symptoms.

[Pheedno]

To elaborate on spideys post

Deca doesn't aromatize to Progesterone, it does aromatize into dihydronandrolone, which is an AR agonist. The PR is stimulated by nandrolone, and can produce a progesterone-like substance; but it's not progesterone; much weaker.
Progesterone is a prolactin agonist(hence the prolactin inhibitors), and both prolactin and progesteron receptors can be found in the mammary gland and can cause gyno which is where prolactin inhibitors come into play but gyno symptoms from these are very rare.

Again, progesterone related gyno is very rare, but in the case a progesterone problem arose, Prog is a E2 agonist so using an anti-e WILL help. The amount of progesterone would need to be substantial though, and if Test is run at even a lesser dose than Fina or deca, if gyno comes into play, it's most likely still going to be estrogenic. Not from direct conversion, but from indirect fluctuations from Prolactin/Test/Estrogen.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Pheedno
To elaborate on spideys post

Deca doesn't aromatize to Progesterone, it does aromatize into dihydronandrolone, which is an AR agonist. The PR is stimulated by nandrolone, and can produce a progesterone-like substance; but it's not progesterone; much weaker.
Progesterone is a prolactin agonist(hence the prolactin inhibitors), and both prolactin and progesteron receptors can be found in the mammary gland and can cause gyno which is where prolactin inhibitors come into play but gyno symptoms from these are very rare.

Again, progesterone related gyno is very rare, but in the case a progesterone problem arose, Prog is a E2 agonist so using an anti-e WILL help. The amount of progesterone would need to be substantial though, and if Test is run at even a lesser dose than Fina or deca, if gyno comes into play, it's most likely still going to be estrogenic. Not from direct conversion, but from indirect fluctuations from Prolactin/Test/Estrogen.

Uhmm no.

Nandrolone is REDUCED to some degree to dihydronandrolone by 5-alpha-reductase. It is even less androgenic then nandrolone itself so I don't know about it being an AR agonist. It doesn't bind well with the AR. Nandrolone does aromatize slightly to estradiol.

Second, receptors can not be "stimulated" into producing anything. They are just that, RECEPTORS. Substrates bind to receptors sort of like a puzzle piece fits into the puzzle. Differently shaped or sized molecules may not fit into the receptor as well or at all. Unfortunately, nandrolone fits into the PR and is recognized to some extent as progesterone. This makes it (by definition) a progestin. And yes, it is a weaker progestin than progesterone itself.