which cycle sust or prop

[slapdatsit]

ok quick stats 29yr, 5-10,175lb.
this is my second cycle first was
prop 150mg eod week 1-10
winny 50-75 eod week 4-10
(i did start a cycle befor that prop and winny but had to cut it at mid week 3).
looking for nice lean hard gains that i will hold onto.was thinking sust ,winny, eq or prop ,winny, eq. i have the winny and the eq just not shure what test i want. i liked the prop but the inj start to get painfull at about week 4. i have not hit the gym in 4-5 weeks do to car crash so i have lost alot.i plan on going back this week. but iam not going to hit the gear till late april. so i need some help people!
THANKS!!

[orion76]

You'd have to inject the sust just as often as the prop bro otherwise your test levels will be all over the place.

I'd either choose prop or test enantate if you dont want to inject so often.

[bowbow]

If the injections are to much then I'd say try test cyp or enan. with the eq and winny.

[slapdatsit]

i understand the diet is 90% of the type of gains and the results. its not so much the pain of the prop that is the problem i can deal with that. i was just thinking the sust may give me a lil more mass i guess my real question is in everyones opinion which is a better cycle.

[orion76]

Sust hurts too. If you're gonna use Sust then consider enantate, doesn't hurt and can be injected only once a week with the same results as Sust.

But to answer your question, I think the prop cycle is the better choice.

[TSR1969]

sust is overpriced and over rated imo. There is a sticky on this somewhere, but of the 250mg, when you take out all the esters, you now have somehting like 180mg of test. 3 days later the 60mgs (i think its 60) of prop is gone and now you have like 120mgs of test (anyone who knws the exact numbers please add).

Like orion says, use enan or cyp if you dont want prop pain. Sust is not going to give you more mass. it is just test, you may retain more water due to the longer acting esters, but test is test is test...

with winny you need eod (but better to do it ed - levels will stay more stable) shots so you may as well use prop (but then you deal with the pain). simple low stick cycle would be enan and eq like bass said

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by TSR1969
sust is overpriced and over rated imo. There is a sticky on this somewhere, but of the 250mg, when you take out all the esters, you now have somehting like 180mg of test. 3 days later the 60mgs (i think its 60) of prop is gone and now you have like 120mgs of test (anyone who knws the exact numbers please add).

Like orion says, use enan or cyp if you dont want prop pain. Sust is not going to give you more mass. it is just test, you may retain more water due to the longer acting esters, but test is test is test...

with winny you need eod (but better to do it ed - levels will stay more stable) shots so you may as well use prop (but then you deal with the pain). simple low stick cycle would be enan and eq like bass said

It's 30mg of prop, but one of the other esters is fast acting as well. However, I agree that sust is overated, but it WILL put mass on you......for sure. If you want long and short esters then use enan or cyp throughout the cycle and jumpstart with prop.

[Alpine]

Originally posted by orion76
You'd have to inject the sust just as often as the prop bro otherwise your test levels will be all over the place.

I'd either choose prop or test enantate if you dont want to inject so often.

Thats just bad advice. One major problem with these online boards is that there is a wealth of INCORRECT info. I wish people would refrain from giving "advice" if they are not 100% positive of what they are talking about.

Sustanon = Testosterone propionate 30 mg, Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg, Testosterone isocaporate 60 mg, Testosterone decanoate 100 mg.

Just because it has a test prop ester doesnt mean it takes on the characteristics of test prop. Sustanon 250 was designed to have a "time release" effect. Sustanon is effective after one day (prop) and because on the mixed in decanoates, remains active for 3-4 weeks.

The only common recommendation for Sust injections is AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I have yet to see anyone educated -or- any steroid profiles that say Sust needs to be injected EOD. For these esters that is simply overkill. 2x a week would be the optimal schedule IMO. Still once a week is fine if thats what you want to do.

I've run 1 cycle and consider myself a newbie yet I continuously read bad or incorrect advice by people on various boards. Seriously people - stop poisoning the well of knowledge. Posting advice should be left to up to experienced Vets. Just because you have run 2-3 cycles doesn’t mean you know shit - half of you dont.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by Alpine
Thats just bad advice. One major problem with these online boards is that there is a wealth of INCORRECT info. I wish people would refrain from giving "advice" if they are not 100% positive of what they are talking about.

Sustanon = Testosterone propionate 30 mg, Testosterone phenylpropionate 60mg, Testosterone isocaporate 60 mg, Testosterone decanoate 100 mg.

Just because it has a test prop ester doesnt mean it takes on the characteristics of test prop. Sustanon 250 was designed to have a "time release" effect. Sustanon is effective after one day (prop) and because on the mixed in decanoates, remains active for 3-4 weeks.

The only common recommendation for Sust injections is AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK. I have yet to see anyone educated -or- any steroid profiles that say Sust needs to be injected EOD. For these esters that is simply overkill. 2x a week would be the optimal schedule IMO. Still once a week is fine if thats what you want to do.

I've run 1 cycle and consider myself a newbie yet I continuously read bad or incorrect advice by people on various boards. Seriously people - stop poisoning the well of knowledge. Posting advice should be left to up to experienced Vets. Just because you have run 2-3 cycles doesn’t mean you know shit - half of you dont.

Easy there doc (if I remember correctly). Orion is correct and I don't care what you read. Sustanon is a pretty damn hyped up drug and quite honestly I don't understand why. I too have used sustanon 250....and I must say that it does work fine at once a wk. However, you are missing the point here. Why use sust if your not going to take advantage of the "2" fast acting drugs in it.....propionate and phenylpropionate. That is 80mg of test with esters attached that have a half life of roughly 3 days. therefore it should be injected at least eod to get the full effect from all 4 esters. The other 2 are longer, with decanoate being the longest (approx. 3 wks). I need to find the chart that shows what the half lives are for every ester and post it up for you. Haven't you realized that there is a lot of bad info on the net and in books and mags. You're a smart guy, gonna be a doctor right? Well, this is not a hard concept to understand. I have always said that sustanon will give good gains but I don't recommend it unless a person is going to shoot it eod or e3d at the least. Also, I think it is better to just use cyp or enan and run prop as a jumpstart....after all, that is the only logical reason there could be for having the prop ester in sust to begin with don't you think. And by the way, most experienced vets say the same thing. I know one thing for sure, I have a lot more exp. then you as far as aas goes and I have done extensive research on every different drug that has gone in my body. No flame intended here bro, but it looked like you were flaming some of us. By the way, read up on more of Orion's posts and you'll see that he knows a great deal about gear.

[Alpine]

Im not even going to try and debate Sust vs (X) w/ you. Im not a Sust Fan Boy or anything. The facts are there - deciding which to choose is up to the person and their desired injection schedule. I was just correcting some bad advice where he was comparing prop and sust and saying you would need EOD injections as you would with prop. 1x is just fine for Sust - I too think 2x a week is better but you would be fine with 1. It wouldnt be a major blunder like it would with 1x using prop or something - then you really would have very noticeable fluctuations...
This wasnt a flame on any one single person. Im just tired of reading bad info posted by people who think they know something because they have been sticking needles in their ass for 3 years. Forgive me if I have offended anyone.

[jsjs24]

You didn't offend me Alpine, and I understand your reasoning. I kind of got sick of explaining my thoughts on sust. Anymore you'll notice that I just recommend some enan or cyp, or I just mention that imo it is way overrated. Sorry if I came off in a negative manner. Everyone is here to learn and share info, after a while you will realize who to trust (believe) and who to overlook.

[pigmeat]

I dont see how that was bad info? If you want to take advantage of the prop, then yes you need to inject EOD. Period! If you not going to take advantage of the short esters, then it is a waste. Better off with a single long ester like cyp.Myself, I dont like sus unless you run high dose. Just not enough prop to worry about if only on 500mg a week.
I have to agree with Orion, and JS! You are the one that stands wrong here.

[Alpine]

Find one steroid profile write-up where it recommends EOD with Sust - Its overkill. 30mg of Prop is shit.... It was designed for an overall time release effect. It was created to be better than single ester choices while still keeping injection frequency to a minimum. Everyone is focusing on the prop - look at the bulk of the esters - deconate. 30mg of prop is all part of the “time release” concept. I’m not saying I believe all the hype about Sust. You can inject EOD if you want - it was not designed with that in mind. It was intended to supersede less advanced single ester choices. Arguing it should be injected EOD due to 30mg of prop is getting nit-picky to the point of foolishness.

Im done here - this is a waste of time. I was just trying to help some poor newbie who might read that Sust needed to be EOD or that Prop was a good choice for a beginner/novice user.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by Alpine
Find one steroid profile write-up where it recommends EOD with Sust - Its overkill. 30mg of Prop is shit.... It was designed for an overall time release effect. It was created to be better than single ester choices while still keeping injection frequency to a minimum. Everyone is focusing on the prop - look at the bulk of the esters - deconate. 30mg of prop is all part of the “time release” concept. I’m not saying I believe all the hype about Sust. You can inject EOD if you want - it was not designed with that in mind. It was intended to supersede less advanced single ester choices. Arguing it should be injected EOD due to 30mg of prop is getting nit-picky to the point of foolishness.

Im done here - this is a waste of time. I was just trying to help some poor newbie who might read that Sust needed to be EOD or that Prop was a good choice for a beginner/novice user.

OMG bro, did you read a word I said. There are 2 esters in sust that are 3-4 day half lives, prop and phenylprop. That is a total of 80mg being wasted or not used to it's full potential. And if you're doing 500mg a wk then it's 160mg being wasted. Also, I don't care what genious designed sust, I think it was a poor combo (though a lot of people will argue with me on that). And there is nothing wrong with a beginner using prop for a 1st cycle if he doesn't mind the frequent injections. I've read responses from people that have and liked it, exception to being a little sore...lol.

[Alpine]

Originally posted by jsjs24
OMG bro, did you read a word I said. There are 2 esters in sust that are 3-4 day half lives, prop and phenylprop. That is a total of 80mg being wasted or not used to it's full potential. And if you're doing 500mg a wk then it's 160mg being wasted. Also, I don't care what genious designed sust, I think it was a poor combo (though a lot of people will argue with me on that). And there is nothing wrong with a beginner using prop for a 1st cycle if he doesn't mind the frequent injections. I've read responses from people that have and liked it, exception to being a little sore...lol.

jsjs24: I was mainly replying to pigmeat.

I honestly think some of you would argue over whether the sky is blue. First, your last post is off - How is 160mg "wasted". That makes no sense. Its not completely useless just because that ester is shorter than the others. It was designed to perform this way in the body. How can you argue with the entire purpose of Sustanon's formulation. Do you think when it was designed they missed out on the fact that all these esters have different half lives? It was all part of the Time Release Concept. Its a mix of short and long acting esters for a reason. That reason is so that you can achieve more stable levels with less injections. And also so that you can get an immediate initial response from the injection while still getting the long-term response. Technically Sustanon is supposed to make you hold less water as it aromatizes less than enth or cyp. This is a steroid that was designed to be better than single ester choices with minimal injection frequency required. Now why would you go and recommend this as an EOD choice or even lump it with Prop? Because it has some fast acting esters? It also has the very slow acting deconate. If you are going to inject EOD then choose prop. If you are aiming for 1x or 2x a week choose cyp/enth/sust. If you think that by injection EOD with Sust you will see any difference then you are misguided.

All I was saying was that you shouldn’t compare Sust and Prop when referring to EOD injections. It was basically stated that you would need to do EOD to use Sust – that’s all I was attempting to clear up.

Please let this topic RIP - you cant validate any reasoning why Sust should be considered an EOD choice like prop. You did make some valid connections with the fast acting esters and timing. You failed to keep in mind that much smarter people took this into account when they designed it as a 1x or 2x a week injectable.