suggestions for a winter bulker

[spidey]

OK, the goal would be to end up keeping a good 10 to 15 lbs and keep my BF the same (12%) or maybe even a little lower. I know a lot of that depends on my diet so suggestions in that area are welcome too.

I have access to the following:

nandrolone butyrate (half life 6 days) or nandrolone octanoate (half life 12 days)

methenolone cypionate
mesterolone butyrate or cypionate (injectable proviron)
boldenone butyrate or cypionate
oxandrolone

I have access to dbol but wasn't impressed with it last time. Test doesn't agree with me; it gives me little in the way of gains but gives me bad acne. I am staying away from tren this time around as well due to insomnia and night sweats.

Cycle 1:

500mg primo ew, 100mg mesterolone butyrate ew, and 30mg var ed for 10 weeks

cycle 2:

400mg nandrolone butyrate ew, 100mg mesterolone butyrate ew and 30 or 40mg var ed for 10 weeks

cycle 3:

400mg nandrolone butyrate ew, 400mg primo ew, 100mg ew mesterolone butyrate ew and 30mg var ed for 10 weeks

other cycle choices could be primo+boldenone cycles, nandrolone + boldenone cycles or some mixture.

Some explanations for my choices: A fast acting deca like nandrolone butyrate is a high anabolic low androgenic with a low side effect profile. Similarly, primo is also high anabolic, low androgenic with an even lower side effect profile.

Since proviron (mesterolone) is not a 17-AAS, the oral bioavailability should only be around 20%. Making a short, fast acting ester and injecting it should greatly increase the bioavailability and allow me to use a smaller dosage to get the same effect. It wouldn't surprise me terribly if it turns out to be similar in action to masterone but with a little lower androgen character. Since I don't do well on test, it should also take care of any labido problems from the nandrolone or primo.

This would be my fourth cycle.

[spidey]

bump

[hussle_man]

Personally, since you dont do well with D-bol or test straight up, i would go with primo and EQ with a little bit of Drol on top for a month or so just because its so hard on the liver.

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by hussle_man
Personally, since you dont do well with D-bol or test straight up, i would go with primo and EQ with a little bit of Drol on top for a month or so just because its so hard on the liver.

I would not do that...primo more times than not is not legit and drol for a month or so? Maybe 4wks and 6wks max. Use test or don't even bother with gear imo. And if you weren't impressed with dbol then what dose and kind did you take. Dbol should give anybody gains. Too damn picky imo for aas. Test, eq, and dbol will do the trick. Also, if he is worried about acne...then why did you recommend drol hussle_man? All gear can give you acne...some worse than others, but you need to accept that and try to prevent it by other methods like showering twice a day and using good soaps and medications.

[jsjs24]

I just realized something spidey...you said test gives you little gains (which is hard to believe unless you didn't take enough), and you said it gave you bad acne. You also mentioned tren...but nothing about it breaking you out. You mean that the tren did not and the test did. Or....of you ran them together then I would say the tren broke you out. If you don't care would you please post your previous cycles.

[hussle_man]

Originally posted by jsjs24
I would not do that...primo more times than not is not legit and drol for a month or so? Maybe 4wks and 6wks max. Use test or don't even bother with gear imo. And if you weren't impressed with dbol then what dose and kind did you take. Dbol should give anybody gains. Too damn picky imo for aas. Test, eq, and dbol will do the trick. Also, if he is worried about acne...then why did you recommend drol hussle_man? All gear can give you acne...some worse than others, but you need to accept that and try to prevent it by other methods like showering twice a day and using good soaps and medications.

As far as the primo is concerned, its neither here nor there if its legit or not, obviously he feels he can get ahold of the real deal and if he can thats great. Also Primo IS considered to be a safe steroid with few sides for those who use it in moderation. As far as the drol is concerned, I did say a month or so which is 4 weeks. Personally i'd stick to it for a month and go no further. Everything else, i agree with ya. I dont see how D-bol did nothing for him and acne is just part of the game. if your acne is that bad i would talk to your dermatologist about accutane

[MYRICK]

Originally posted by jsjs24
I would not do that...primo more times than not is not legit and drol for a month or so? Maybe 4wks and 6wks max.

4 WEEKS IS A MONTH

[NeverSatisfied]

i like cycle 1 the best, but i think your should you add eq. i'd still add test to any cycle but it sounds like you've already decided against it

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by MYRICK
4 WEEKS IS A MONTH

I know that bro...lol. I meant not do a month "or so".....meaning 2 months....just 4-6 wks max. Sorry guys I should have clarified better. I still don't like any of the choices he has though...I think anyone can grow off test. It's like bdtr said the other day on ironbodybuilding...."Nature didn't make me... Test enanthate and anadrol made me."

[spidey]

Originally posted by jsjs24
I just realized something spidey...you said test gives you little gains (which is hard to believe unless you didn't take enough), and you said it gave you bad acne. You also mentioned tren...but nothing about it breaking you out. You mean that the tren did not and the test did. Or....of you ran them together then I would say the tren broke you out. If you don't care would you please post your previous cycles.

LOL, leave for a month or two and no one remembers you when you get back.

I have done three cycles.

Cycle 1:

weeks 1-3: 50 mg tren ed
weeks 4-8: 50 mg tren ed + 50 mg test prop ed
weeks 9-11: 50 mg test prop ed
weeks 12-13: Clomid therapy

I gained 27 lbs but a preexisting shoulder injury forced me to lay off the gym for 6 weeks and I lost 15 lbs and a lot of strength.

cycle 2: (6 months later)

weeks 1-10: 50 mg tren ed + 75 mg test prop ed
weeks 1-8: dbol 35mg ed (tried 50mg for a couple days but cut it back down.)
weeks 1-7: arimidex 0.5 mg ed
weeks 8-10: nolvadex 40 mg ed
weeks 11-12: Clomid therapy

Gained 20 lbs; lost 8 lbs water weight the first week off so net gain 12 lbs.

Cycle 3: (a cutter)

weeks 1-9: Bodenone cypionate 400mg ew
weeks 3-4: clen (20,40,60,80,100,120, 120x8)
weeks 4-9: liquathy (T3) 12.5 mcg ed + yohimbine HCl 15mg ed
weeks 5-7: ECA stack
weeks 8-9: clen 120mcg ed

I know this is a little confusing. The bold cyp was just there to preserve LBM while dieting. I did the clen 2 weeks on 2 weeks off starting on week 3 and alternated with the ECA on the off weeks. The T3 was just enough to put my thyroid in the high end of normal. I lost 8 lbs and 4% BF. Doing the math, I lost 0.72 lbs LBM and 7.28 lbs BF. My strength was unchanged.

Now, on my first cycle, 20 of the 27 lbs gained was in the first 3 weeks of tren alone. During this time, I lost no hair and didn't get a single zit. A week after I started the test prop, I broke out so bad it took months to clear up and I lost a bit of hair. My gains slowed to a trickle.

On the second cycle, I again broke out only a week after starting the cycle (the test again?) and the gains didn't really start for a couple weeks. After that, about half of what I gained was water (from the dbol). Of the rest, a lot was fat. I will say that the dbol strength was impressive. I just think that all considered, it wasn't really worth the bloat and high blood pressure.

You shouldn't be surprised that not everyone gets good gains from test. Everyone reacts differently to every compound. I have a friend who is pretty much AS proof, LOL. The poor dope took 3 times the juice I was taking and got ZILCH. His diet was better than mine too. And yes, his gear was real; I made it myself. I took the same gear and gained 27 lbs on that first cycle. My friend tried again. He took 50 mg ed dbol + 150mg ed tren + 200mg ed test prop and still got nothing; no gains and no sides. I told him he's an idiot if he ever touches the stuff again, LOL.

[jsjs24]

Ok spidey, I'm sorry I don't remember your cycles, but too many people post them...lol, I do remember you though bro. One thing I wonder is why your pct is only 2 wks...but if you're keeping most of your gains then so be it I guess, however, I believe a solid month pct is needed. All aas will break you out if your prone to acne...that's all there is to it. I have the same problem but if I watch what kind of gear I use it seems I can keep it to a minimum. Test prop can break you out pretty quick because it's so fast acting...but I still think tren has a lot to do with it. It just may not of hit you until after you finished it. I've done cycles without hardly a single pimple, and then a couple wks after it's finished I break out. As for the water weight, I don't understand how it's that bad while taking ldex. I'm on day 27 of 35mg dbol right now and I can't notice any water weight, and I'm only taking .25 ldex ed. You say your diet is clean....hmm, maybe your ldex is not legit. I bloat as bad as anyone but with the ldex it is not a problem. It sounds to me like you need to consider leaving the tren and prop alone for a cycle to see. I would try some scherring enan or a good ug lab one, and some eq, along with winstrol or anavar. It seemed like I break out more from mexican gear (brovel and tornell) than I do from higher grade testosterones like primoteston depot and testoviron depot. Right now I'm using a ug lab to see how I react to it. As for your friend that can't gain off 200mg of prop ed (which is 1.4g a wk), 150mg tren, and 50mg dbol...well, he's a rare case. I've never heard of anything like that. It's quite honestly hard to believe but I'll take your word for it. Good luck on your next cycle spidey and post it when you decide.

[spidey]

Yeah, I have a little time still to work on it. I can't start anything until the last week of Jan or the first week of Feb. I am making some of my gear now (It's good to be a chemist)

On my first two cycles, my diet was not very clean. I was on the see-food diet, so to speak. If it couldn't out-run me, I ate it. That's where a lot of that BF came from I know. I wised up and did that cutter with a very strict diet and lost a good deal of that BF. I can see my abs now anyway. I will keep the same ratios of protein, carbs, and fat on my next cycle but basically double everything for a fairly clean 4100 cals ed with 500 grams protein, 300 grams carbs and 100 grams fat.

I am leaning toward a variation of cycle 3 at the moment.

weeks 1-10: nandrolone butyrate (400mg ew) and primo (400mg ew) and injectable proviron (100mg ew)

weeks 11-13: HCG (500 iu's eod) and nolva (20mg ed)

weeks 11-20: var (40mg ed) + injectable proviron (100mg ew)

weeks 21-22 HCG (500 iu's eod) and nolva (20mg ed) + injectable proviron (100mg ew)

weeks 23-24: nolva (20mg ed) + injectable proviron (100mg ew)

The first 10 weeks with the nandrolone and primo will be the bulking phase. The proviron should keep mr. happy "happy". After that, a little HCG to get the juices flowing again and 10 weeks of var and proviron should solidify my gains and harden me up some. I will adjust my diet as needed at that point. I will run the proviron through PCT since it has been shown that it does not inhibit the HPTA and thus will not hinder recovery and it will serve as an anti-catabolic during this time.

Like I said about my friend's gear, I made it all except the dbol and I analyzed that for him to be sure it was legit. It tested out to 4.7 mg per tab. It isn't possible to pass off fake gear to me as long as I have access to a lab.

He did say he got some strength from the dbol but that was it; no weight gain or water retention and, of course, the strength went away when he stopped his cycle.

I think maybe his androgen receptors are mutated or something and won't bind androgens well, LOL. He does have abnormally high test levels to begin with.

[jsjs24]

Let me know how that cycle works out. You're a chemist I take it so you probably know your drugs. Did you make the primo too? I would extend the primo a little longer if you can afford to. Good luck spidey.

[spidey]

Yes, I am making the primo (from 1-test). I am think I will make it as the butyrate ester though instead of the cypionate I planned before. With a 6 day half life, eod injects will work well and with a shorter, lighter ester, it will be more potent mg for mg. I have it all figured out: If I dissolve 4 grams primo + 4 grams nandrolone + 1 gram proviron (9g total, all butyrate esters) in 35 total mL, that will make enough to inject 1 mL every other day for the ten weeks. Everything will be mixed together in one shot. It comes out to a weird conc. of 257 mg/mL alltogether but the math works out.

[jsjs24]

Sounds good...don't you think you should run something along with the var though, maybe some eq for about 12-15wks or something.