2nd Cycle Advice - Upping the Anti

[Alpine]

Stats: 21 - 6' - 190bs.
Background: 1st cycle - 500mg/wk Test Enanthate (ICN). 12 weeks. Had Nolva on hand but never really had to use it. Standard Clomid Post cycle therapy. I had no negative sides on cycle. I did however have a slight increase in shoulder/back acne a little while after Post Cycle therapy. Possibly due to natural test picking back up & hormonal imbalance? I also should have kept more of the gains but I started a summer job and my diet and training dropped off more than I would have liked.

Proposed Second Cycle:
1-4: Dbol 20mg/Day
1-12 Enanthate 750mg/wk (ICN or comparable)

*possibly some Var 11-16 or something if I can get decent price.
* considering running Arimidex throughout this time

I have decided to try upping the dosage to 750mg. Numerous experienced users have told me I should use at least 750mg. Also I keep reading Dave Palumbo of MD saying the exact same thing. Over and over again in his column he recommends at least 750mg to get an adequate response. Basically in a nutshell he says the first 250 brings you around levels of what you would normally produce and the other 250 is what you are effectively upping the anti with. I have always been of the opinion people run too much shit and that less is better and healthier. I’m wondering if the same holds true but that maybe it is better to use around 750mg. – Thoughts?

I did considered running 500mg of Test and then some Deca at 400-500mg. I ended up choosing just Test at 750 as the Deca would mean larger injections and more frequent injections.

Any advice/thoughts or modifications would be greatly appreciated.

By the way - please don’t bother responding if you haven’t run all of these dosages yourself before or don’t have good experience with cycling and various compounds. If I wanted nooby speculation I could just go with my gut.

[Got Gear?]

Screw that! If 500mg/wk worked well for you, there's no reason to use more. I don't care who told you that. I've run 4 cycles and have never exceeded 750mg/wk test. And I've always had good gains...

If you really want to up the dose, consider adding Deca to your cycle...say 400-500mg/wk. And 20mg ED of dbol.. is a little low. I'd reccomend you up that to 25mg.

How about this:
Dbol 25mg ED wk1-4
Test E 500mg/wk 1-11
Deca 400mg/wk 1-10

PCT starting week 13

[mcbvr6]

250 mgs per week is a lot more than your natural levels. Naturally you produce between 28 to 84 mgs per week. even subtracting the ester weight out of the 250 mgs, its a lot more than 28 to 84 mgs per week.

That being said. if your first cycle was 500 mgs I don't see any problem with upping it to 750 mgs. I agree that you should use the least amount necessary to still make gains at a reasonable rate. 750 by itself isn't a huge cycle by any means.

I would drop the dbol though. 20 mgs per day for 4 weeks is a waste of dbol IMO. Either up the dose to 35 mgs and run it for at least 6 weeks, or drop it. I know these boards are full of people that say 4 weeks on dbol is what you want for a kickstart. Personally I think it is a waste. Dbol is a very effective drug that should not be reduced to simply a way to store a bunch of water and appear to gain weight while you wait for the test to start working.

BTW, I agree with the "speculation" comment 100%. I prefer to talk about my experiences rather than parrot what others have told me to do.

[Got Gear?]

I've heard many stories about people using Sust only for their 1st cycle at only 250mg/wk (1 cc) and gaining 20lbs..

So yes, 250mg/wk is definately more than your natural levels.

[HungarianBeast]

If you really want to up the dose, consider adding Deca to your cycle...say 400-500mg/wk. And 20mg ED of dbol.. is a little low. I'd reccomend you up that to 25mg.

How about this:
Dbol 25mg ED wk1-4
Test E 500mg/wk 1-11
Deca 400mg/wk 1-10

PCT starting week 13 [/B][/QUOTE]

perfecto! More is not always better most of the time. Add a class 1 (deca, etc...) instead.

Unless you are up around 240lbs trying to get to 255+, you don't need more test.

[Alpine]

-For The Deca comments:-

Initially I wanted to do Test/Deca. Then I started thinking how much easier it would be with just Test.

Test @ 750 = 2 injections per week: 1.5cc x2 -or- 1cc/2cc (may be easier w/ amps)

Test @ 500 + Deca @ 400 = 3-4 injections: 1cc x2 Test + 1cc x2 Deca -or- One 2cc Deca.

I was spoiled by shooting 1cc of ICN per shot. I never had any lumps or even the slightest pain. I liked sticking to small injections.

Also I was considering starting some Proscar as a proactive measure for hair loss. Im not losing hair but I am genetically prone and it does seem slightly thinner as I age. I figure If I start now before its actually falling out I can protect it longer. - That Rules out Deca.

Then there was EQ - and for a while I was planning on that. But its dosed even lower 50-100mg/ml. That would be a lot more injections or at least larger ones. EQL makes (made?) a 400mg/ml but Im not too crazy about that stuff. I would probably want the Denkall.

Im not too thrilled w/ a 2.5-3cc injection or 4-6 injections a week. Call me a ***** I guess....

That’s why 750 Test became so appealing. Do you think Test:500/EQ:500-600 is THAT Much better than Test:750. Test and EQ are very similar anyway. If I cant run Deca then the difference between more Test and EQ isnt as great.

[Alpine]

bump for more opinions

[x|Fluid|x]

I would reccomend adding deca instead of adding more test. If you got slight acne from 500mg of test, then adding more testosterone will more than likely result in increased sides. 750mg is a pretty high dose for a second cycle IMO, I would advise something like this, as suggested by the posts above mine:

Weeks 1-4: 20-30mg dbol
Weeks 1-12: 500mg Testosterone
Weeks 1-12: 300mg Deca

~Fluid

[Got Gear?]

For 500mg test and 400mg Deca... That would only require 2x2cc injections a week (250mg test, 200mg Deca). I can't see this being a problem...

[Alpine]

Its not so much the injections - its the choice to run Proscar. I cant use Deca then - and EQ is generally 50/100mg/ml like I said above. Thats the dilemma....

[mcbvr6]

You should be able to find eq at 200 mgs per ml without much effort.

I think it is interesting that people say 750 mgs is too much but then go on to tell you to do a cycle that is over a gram a week of gear.

[mcbvr6]

BTW, as for the injections. You know that you can mix them together right? You don't need to do your eq or deca injection separately from your test injection.

[NeverSatisfied]

i'd say to do

500mg week test
400 week eq

just get some 200mg/ml eq.

[Enantato]

I heard somewhere that naturally, your body produces about 7-9 mg of test per day... maybe im wrong??? good luck with your cycle though.