When and how to use HCG

[pitbull21]

I'm just coming off of a cycle of deca and test enanthate, last shot of deca was 2 weeks ago....still have another shot to go for the enanthate....I have some HCG on the way, should be here in a couple of weeks. I have clomid and nolva for PCT. I haven't found much info on using HCG for PCT, could someone help me out please.

Thanks

[jipped genes]

i got my best results when i used it a few days after my last shot so i start PCT when i end hcg i use 500iu ed for 10 days and in the future i am gonna start with 2000 iu for my first shot then 500iu after that. ask ten people you will get 10 answers i feel that as long as you use it in moderate doses it will do as its supposed to.

[jsjs24]

Re: When and how to use HCG

Originally posted by pitbull21
I'm just coming off of a cycle of deca and test enanthate, last shot of deca was 2 weeks ago....still have another shot to go for the enanthate....I have some HCG on the way, should be here in a couple of weeks. I have clomid and nolva for PCT. I haven't found much info on using HCG for PCT, could someone help me out please.

Thanks

You should have only done the enan 1 week past the deca...then 2 wks after enan start pct. The hcg is confusing imo...I'm still deciding how to do mine this time. I used to just do 2500 a wk for 2 or 3 wks. But I think there are better ways. I will also incorporate it in my cycle around the mid point at 500iu sat and sun.

[JohnnyB]

You have to find what works for you, I like doing 500iu 2X a week during the cycle to prevent athorpy. So your not trying to bring them back from the dead so to speak, but your keeping them alive through the cycle.

JohnnyB

[Slightly Enhanced]

I have no idea exactly where this info was originally posted. I just saved it. Chances are that it came somewhere from this board, but I don't know who the author was.

Hcg
What is HCG?- hcg stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.

Where does hcg come from?-it is extracted from the urine of pregnant women.

Is hcg a scheduled medication?- no, its similar to clomid and liquidex as far as US laws go. However you would need a prescription to purchase legally in the US, and this is one of those "grey areas"

What is hcg normally used for?-it is used to help females get pregnant, and can be used to stimulate testosterone production in males.

How does hcg work?- hcg mimics LH(leutenizing hormone). The presence of LH causes the Leydig cells in the gonads to produce testosterone. This effect also restores the size of the testes rather quickly if they were suppressed from a cycle.

Can I use hcg only after a cycle?-no you shouldn't. it is better than nothing, but clomid or nolva are far better plans. Since hcg mimics lh, your body wont begin producing its own lh, as it sees no need to because test levels are high. You stop the hcg, your balls stop making test until your body begins producing adequate levels of its own lh, and that may take a while if you don't use clomid or nolvadex to stimulate lh production.

Can hcg be used w/out steroids to boost testosterone production above baseline?- yes. It is not recommended however. Continued use of hcg will desensitize the leydig cells to lh, meaning once you stop using the hcg as an artificial lh, you will crash bad. The natural lh production once restored by using nolvadex or clomid, may not be as effective as it once was. to boost natural test above baseline, anastrozole, nolvadex and clomid are better choices.

What should hcg be used for?-hcg is commonly used by bodybuilders on either very heavy or very long cycles, when the hpta gets severely suppressed. Although hcg can be used in almost any cycle, the benefits are most pronounced on heavy/long ones.

In the authors opinion, if your cycle contains deca or trenbolone, since these 2 drugs are known to be extremely suppressive to the hpta, you should use hcg. Some people recover very well even on high doses of these drugs, but i see too many users complain about feeling depressed and having a low sex drive and losing gains after a cycle with deca or tren. This is because clomid alone did not assist their recovery enough. Hcg will further help and thats why i recomend it.

How long does hcg boost testosterone for?- hcg can boost testosterone for up to 5 days following the last dose, although the drugs halflife is very short, and its no longer active at that point.

Can hcg cause gyno?-Yes. Estrogen is elevated by two ways from hcg use. Primarily from the sharp rise in testosterone, which allows more testosterone to aromatize to estrogen. Secondly hcg can cause a small amount of estrogen to be produced which is not from the result of aromatizing, and this is the reason that a combination of an anti aromatose such as liquidex/arimidex/letrozole and a estrogen receptor blocker such as nolvadex are ideally used. The nolvadex may also offer some additional benefit to help avoid a negative estrogen feedback to the hpta during hcg therapy, which would otherwise slightly lessen the effectiveness of the therapy.

How does hcg come packaged?-you get 2 vials or amps, 1 has the powdered hcg in it, and the other has a diluent in it(solvent).

The diluent is typically bacteriostatic water, or sterile water w/ .09% sodium chloride. Depending on the brand and version, the package commonly comes w/ enough diluent to make concentrations ranging from 250-10,000iu per ml.

If your package is 5000iu, and you add 1ml diluent, you have 5000iu per ml.
If you add 5ml diluent, you final mix is then 1000iu per ml.
If you add 10ml diluent, then 500iu per ml and so on.

This is simple math, and you don't wanna screw it up-know what dose you are taking!

If your package doesn't include enough diluent to make the concentration you want, you have 2 options to make it easy to accurately measure your doses.

1-buy some insulin syringes, U-100 type. On the graduated markings, the 100iu mark is equal to 1ml, the 50iu is .5ml etc. THIS DOES NOT MEAN IF YOU FILL IT TO THE 100IU MARK THAT YOU ARE TAKING 100IU OF HCG! Iu's are not a measurement of volume or weight, they are a measure of effectiveness for a desired response from specific drugs/compounds. Every compound is different. These are insulin syringes, and they are made for insulin-not hcg. Insulin is the same iu concentration per ml everytime(if its u100 type), hcg is not. Imagine if you made your hcg 10,000iu per ml. if you fill the insulin syringe up to 100iu mark, you now have 10,000iu in there! Not good. You must understand this.

So if you had 5000iu per ml, and wanted to take a 500iu shot, you would inject 10iu on the insulin syringe scale.

2-buy some bacteriostatic water off the internet, its easily found. Simply add more to dilute it to the desired conscentration. Making lower concentrations are easier and more accurately dosed. Then it can accurately be measured w/ a regular syringe.
Mix the two together, they dissolve very easily. Keep things sterile folks. You can purchase empty sterile vials from a few online sites cheap. http://www.getpinz.com is a good place to get insulin syringes as well as bacteriostatic water.

Once hcg is mixed it must be kept refridgerated after that point. most hcg sais it will be good for 30 days after mixing, although some say 60 days. Regardless the longer you save it after mixing the less potent it will be. so if possible try to use it sooner than later.

Heres a typical example of a proper post cycle recovery including hcg. Dosage will vary depending on how suppressed your hpta is, and how well you respond to hcg, but this is normally a good starting point, more is not necessarily better. Some will respond better to 750iu ed or even 1000iu ed, actually everyone will respond better to 1000iu ed, but we don't want to desensitize the leydig cells, which would make clomid treatment less effective. Everyone is different, start at 500iu ed, and if after 5-6 days your balls aren't noticeably bigger and hanging lower, consider a slightly higher dose. I know I respond very well and quickly to small doses, but that may not be the case for you.
**********

Find out when you would normally start your clomid therapy.
Inject hcg 500iu everyday, either intramuscular or sub q, for 10-14 days. Place the hcg so that the LAST hcg shot is about 5 days before clomid therapy starts.

Run clomid like you normally would, which is usually 3-4 wks of clomid therapy in a descending dose. Using 300mg clomid the first day is a good idea.

Anti estrogens should definitely be used during hcg therapy. Both an anti aromatose such as liquidex, arimidex, or letrozole, as well as nolvadex ideally should be used, although just nolvadex can suffice, as well as just an anti aromatose. However everyone is different when it comes to sensitivity to estrogen induced gyno. A combo of both types of anti e's is best and ensures your safety from gyno. IF YOU CAN ONLY GET/AFFORD 1 ANTI E, USE NOLVADEX


An example cycle:

Wks 1-10 enanthate 1000mg wk
Wks 1-12 tren 100mg ed
Wks 5-12 winstrol 50mg ed.
Wks 1-16 liquidex 1mg ed
Last shot of enanthate is day 70.
Last shot of winny and tren are day 84.
Hcg is run days 72-82, 500iu ed.
Nolvadex is run 10mg ed days 72-87.
Clomid is run on days 87-108.

Some may prefer to use nolvadex in place of clomid, but that's not the discussion here, although its ok to do so. Some may also prefer to use higher doses and/or longer clomid therapy, which is also ok.

By using the proper combo of post cycle therapy drugs along w/ proper placement and timing, chances of an excellent recovery are maximized. You keep more gains, and you don't crash hard.

Clearance times for various AS for clomid therapy to begin:

Anadrol50/Anapolan50.......8-12 hours
deca Durobolan................3 weeks
Dianabol.........................4-8 hours
Equipoise........................17-21 days
Finajet/Trenbolone............3 days
Primobolan Depot..............10-14 days
Sustanon.........................3 weeks
Test Cypionate.................2 weeks
Test Enthenate/Testoviron..2 weeks
Test Propionate.................3 days
Test Suspension................4-8 hours
Winstrol...........................8-12 hours

If your taking substantial doses ex. 1g+ of test, you may wish to add 1/3 extra time to the above clearance times before starting clomid. This is optional.

Due to new information id like to amend this article, i no longer feel there is a need to wait 5 days between the last hcg shot and beginning of clomid. start clomid the next day..

[smalls]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
You have to find what works for you, I like doing 500iu 2X a week during the cycle to prevent athorpy. So your not trying to bring them back from the dead so to speak, but your keeping them alive through the cycle.

JohnnyB

That's how i'm planning on running it with my current cycle. I'll be sure to get back to ya on how I liked it.

[Chimp]

Slightly Enhanced that was some great info. Thanks! I'm going to save that myself.

[Slightly Enhanced]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
You have to find what works for you, I like doing 500iu 2X a week during the cycle to prevent athorpy. So your not trying to bring them back from the dead so to speak, but your keeping them alive through the cycle.

JohnnyB

Jonny B is right on the money as usual. I looked (quickly) but could not find it. Anyways, somene posted an article by a doc who suggested that one should take it all the way through.

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by smalls
That's how i'm planning on running it with my current cycle. I'll be sure to get back to ya on how I liked it.

I like it, let us know hoe it works for you.

JohnnyB

[someday]

I ran it for ten days @ 1000iu/day right before the start of my clomid. I lost virtually no strength, size nor sex drive after a 12 week test enth/deca cycle.

[JohnnyB]

Originally posted by someday
I ran it for ten days @ 1000iu/day right before the start of my clomid. I lost virtually no strength, size nor sex drive after a 12 week test enth/deca cycle.

That's another way with 20mg ed of nolva

JohnnyB

[jsjs24]

Originally posted by someday
I ran it for ten days @ 1000iu/day right before the start of my clomid. I lost virtually no strength, size nor sex drive after a 12 week test enth/deca cycle.

Really! When did you start the hcg? Right after the last shot of test enan?

[someday]

Originally posted by jsjs24
Really! When did you start the hcg? Right after the last shot of test enan?

Well, the time lines I originally saw had clomid therapy beginning at 3 weeks after last test E shot or 4 weeks after last deca shot, so I started it 10 days before the 4 week mark (since I ran deca right up to the end). The faq posted in this thread has a week knocked off of each of wait periods I originally found, but it worked for me, so I plan on going that route again. Don't forget, my cycles were not super heavy doses (both 12 weeks, 500mg Enth/400mg deca 1st time, bumped Enth to 750 2nd time and my weight is 260#).

[NeverSatisfied]

Originally posted by JohnnyB
You have to find what works for you, I like doing 500iu 2X a week during the cycle to prevent athorpy. So your not trying to bring them back from the dead so to speak, but your keeping them alive through the cycle.

JohnnyB

johnnyb, from ur experience does this work pretty well for preventing testicular atrophy?

sounds pretty interesting to me