New guy saying HI, and some help!!

[iamdwalrus]

Here is a little something about diuretics.

Thiazides

Considered among the more intense diuretic therapies are the group of drugs called thiazides. Examples include hydrochlorothiazide which appears under a number of trade names and dyazide which is a combo of hydrochlorothiazide and a potassium-sparing diuretic. Drugs from this family are usually prescribed for severe edema associated with heart failure, cirrhosis, and renal failure. The influence on elctrolytes by this group is more profound and invasive than with the potassium-sparing diuretics except that the effcts are magnified. Because these drugs also cause potassium excretion hypokalemia is a very real possiblity. Hypokalemia may result in diseases of the kidney, muscle weakness, paralysis of the muscles of respiration and irregular heartbeats. This is why some manufacturers decided to add a potassium-sparing component to these compounds.

The combo of a low potassium level and the great loss of magnesium(and some believe chloride,too) which are results of these drugs can lead to intense muscle cramps. For some reason these drugs also cause a reabsorption of calcium which can lead to too much calcium in the blood.

Magnesium and calcium are both needed to prevent intense cramping. Sodium replacement therapy is the treatment of choice in cases of extreme adverse reactions. Many misinformed bodybuilders have found themselves in hospital getting IV saline solutions after a bad diuretic episode. Funny how these people complain that their veins disappear and look flat while using diuretics, only to see their vascularity return ASAP after receiving sodium replacement therapy. Keep sodium intake high throughout your precontest prep.

Loop Diuretics

Loop Diuretics are short acting and are the most powerful diuretics. Examples include Lasix(furosemide) and its analogs such as bumetanide and peritanide. These drugs are similar to the thiazides but are quantitatively greater in effect. Though, drugs from this family are similar to thiazides it causes a more profound loss of calcium and massive changes in fluid balance. Low calcium levels lead to mucle tetany where the muscles feel locked and cramped in a contracted position and could even tear away from the bone. Because the loop diretics cause indiscriminate losses of all electrolytes, every dangerous situation associated with lower levels of any one substance is a possibility. Because these agents act so swiftly and powerfully, affecting all electrolytes either directly or indirectly, extremely low BP often occurs. When left unchecked this can lead to blood volume to the point of circulatory collapse. This is another reason why precontest BBers should maintain a high sodium intake.

[BigD]

Thanks walrus, but what about aldactone? I know it's weaker than lasix, and potassium-sparing. Perhaps I should go with that, since I can get it cheaply also? Also, anyone else's input is very valuable, particularly peeps like BOUNCER who compete at a high level

[JohnnyB]

Welcome to FG

JohnnyB

[iamdwalrus]

Here It's weaker I agree but 25-50mg/day is all you need, IMO. I would go with the smaller dose.


Generic Name Spironolactone
Brand Name Aldactone
Indications Diuresis. Used in combination with other diuretics in the treatment of congestive heart failure and BPD (conditions of increased aldosterone secretion).
Dose 1.0-3.0 mg/Kg/day PO, given q 24 hours or (optionally) divided and given q 12 hours.
Route PO
Levels and Metabolism Rapidly metabolized to canrenone, an active metabolite with a half-life of 10-35 hours. Highly protein bound. Half-life with chronic use is 13-24 hours.
Action Competitive antagonist of mineralocorticoids (e.g. aldosterone). Increases excretion of Ca, Mg, Na, Cl (small effect). Decreases excretion of K. Clinical effect usually not seen before 2-3 days after initiation of therapy.
Toxicity Hyponatremia and hyperkalemia may be seen. Rashes, vomiting, diarrhea, paresthesias. Dose-dependent androgenic effects in females. Gynecomastia in males. Headaches, nausea, drowsiness.
Contraindications Use with caution in patients with impaired renal function.
References Young & Mangum, Neo Fax, p. 113, 1993.
Benitz & Tatro, Pediatric Drug Handbook, p. 236, 1988.

[iamdwalrus]

Here's another :

Aldactone: (spironolactone) 25mg tabs 50 tabs/bottle
WriteUp ONE

This drug is a mild diuretic which works by inhibiting the effects of aldosterone in the body. As with aldactazide, it is often used for the treatment of high blood pressure. Some pre - contest bodybuilders find it helpful in reducing excess water from abnormally high estrogen in the system. Recently woman have been using the drug as an anti - androgen. This drug has the ability to reverse the effects of androgens in woman. This is often a very useful drug when a woman is taking steroids and begins to suffer masculinisation. In this case woman usually stop using this parades and take Aldactone for one to three weeks; until the androgens turn to an acceptable range. This drug like all diuretics can cause some serious side effects; muscle cramping, heart problems and dizziness to mention a few. Aldactone is usually obtained from a doctor who helps the individual with the proper use. Due to the anti- - androgenic effects of this drug, male bodybuilders use it for only a few days at a time. It will lower androgens so significantly in some cases that gynecomastia becomes a problem. A dose of one tablet taken to times daily was most common.

WriteUp TWO

Potassium sparing diuretics have relatively low diuretic effects so that Aldactone can be called a mild diuretic. It is interesting to note that Aldactone is also an antiandrogen since it reduces the androgen level. Female athletes take advantage of this characteristic by using it to minimize the virilization symptoms during steroid treatment or the symptoms after treatment. For this purpose Aldactone is normally taken daily for 10 to 14 days, usually in a dose of 50 mg/day. In men this could cause problems since the relationship of the androgen level to the estrogen level changes in favor of the latter Thus, common side effects in men include pain in the nipples and breast swelling (gynecomastia).

Bodybuilders use Aldactone almost exclusively during the last week before a competition. Since this causes neither a dramatic nor an immediately noticeable draining effect, it is usually taken over 5-6 days in a dosage of 2 tablets of 50 mg daily. Aldactone should not be used to expediently drain water at the last minute. Both male and female athletes take it. The side effects of potassium-saving diuretics are relatively low compared to thiazides and furosemides. The main problems in men consist of gynecomastia and possible impotence. Other side effects can be low blood pressure, muscle spasms, dizziness, gastrointestinal pain, vomiting, irregular pulse rate, and fatigue.

Aldactone is slower acting than the lasix. I takes 2-3 days before it really kicks in and not the 30-60 minuttes like the lasix. But its much safer than lasix, so It's recommended to any diuretic-newbies.

[iamdwalrus]

So have you decided yet on what to use, BigD?

[BigD]

No, I haven't decided yet. I already have lasix, but will probably also get aldactone, since it's milder. It will probably depend on how much water I'm holding at the 1week point, what I use. If any competitors like Bouncer could chime in, that would help a lot too! Thanks Walrus for all the info, much appreciated mate

[iamdwalrus]

The Bouncer might be too busy postwhoring,lol, j/k so he might be able to read this. You should PM him.

[bigjim33]

nice to see you here....i will bump this for ya