Your opinions on deca?

[prolangtum]

Originally posted by rado
Pro compares Deca to Eq at a certain dosage, forgot what it was though

300 eq= 200 deca
600 eq=400 deca
so on...

[rado]

Originally posted by prolangtum
300 eq= 200 deca
600 eq=400 deca
so on...

I knew the titty man would come through

[Muscleguy40oz]

I have read about deca shutting down many really hard. I also read that while on IGF-1 it keeps your nuts from shutting down. Is this true? Has anyone who used IGF-1 experianced this?

[Maxhardc]

No, but there is an interesting article with GH combined with IGF-1

Schambelan M, Mulligan K, Grunfeld C, et al. Recombinant human growth hormone in patients with HIV-associated wasting. A randomized, placebo-controlled trail. Serostim Study Group. Annals of Internal Medicine Dec 1, 1996; 125(11):873-82.


Group 1: 1.4mg day GH
Group 2: 10mg day IGF-I
Group 3: 10mg day IGF-I plus 1.4mg day GH
Group 4: placebo

Group 3 had the greatest changes in lean body mass.

In the long run, its impossible to tell if the combo therapy didnt cause greater side-effects and/or take longer for the body to recover at the completion of the cycle.

Moreover, increasing the GH only to 5mg day may have likely had an equal outcome to the combo therapy.

None the less, its interesting to consider this study in the broad scope of things.

Its been hypothosized that there is an advantage by the co-administration of GH and IGF-I. [When IGF is given subcutaneously (only) vs. other types of administration]

The theory is that taking them both together will increase IGF binding-protein concentrations yet balance glycemic control. This could be a beneficial thing considering that long term GH therapy induces hyperglycemia.

As they say, more studies are (always) needed.

Jenkins RC, Ross RJ. Growth hormone therapy for protein catabolism. [Review]. QJM. Nov 1996; 89(11):813-9.


Some researchers claim that subcutaneous administration of IGF-I resists down regulation to a degree great than that afforded in IV adminstration.

I dont know if that is true or not. However, in one study using various dosages of IGF-I over the course of only 10 days produced "transient" nitrogen retention - and that the effects of IGF-I were quickly attentuated (down regulated) in all subjects.

Mulligan K, Grunfeld C, Schambelan M, et al. Anabolic effects of recombinant human growth hormone in patients with wasting associated with human immunodeficiency virus infection. J Clin Endocrin Metab Oct 1993; 77(4):956-62.

You'll perhaps note that the researchers in this study are (very) often reported in Serano studies.

If Im not mistaken, Schambelan has done some work with time release GH phase trials at San Francisco General Hospital. If so, I think that would be for Genentech.

Anyway, Mulligan, Grunfeld, and Schambelan have generally reported positive nitrogen retention and fat oxidation in their many GH studies. As near as I can tell, all the outcomes to the studies I have seen are positive for growth hormone.

Max