Hey guys have a "SERIOUS" question 4 ya all

[rado]

Originally posted by Juice Authority
Look at his smartass comment to Dr_Diabolical. That as uncalled for especially since Dr_Diabolical was right in what he said.

your right JA, but 2 wrongs don't make it right...I know the both of you have some issues and lately as you know(qv threads) we have had some flames and words going back and forth with members and boards on the net, just wish this petty shit would stop. All of us here are adults and should just let shit go by without thinking twice sometimes


all I'm saying is that even though he might of been a smart ass, by you saying that and posting that, it's not going to make it better, just worst JA, that's all....


go work out or something

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by Juice Authority
Look at his smartass comment to Dr_Diabolical. That was uncalled for especially since Dr_Diabolical was right in what he said.

First off, if he was right about what he said, he can prove it...

Second, a bunch of kids at Elite Fitness (lol) calling me out is comical. No loss there.


I really dont need someone to regualte my choice of words or what I say, you of all people wont be the one to do it. You got no respect here, at Steroidology and Im guessing if you act like this at other boards, none there either. I dont even know you kid, but I hope you plan to pay me for the ride on my nuts.

Back to the original question, since you're educated in the area Juice, maybe you can provide some references..... goodluck.

[fragmaster3sum]

personally
i'd say...."she gona be a lonely woman"......and get on wif it....

[Juice Authority]

Originally posted by basskiller
Do you want to tell me what the hell That has to do with this thread? If your not going to add something to the thread that is beneficial to the question at hand.. then don't post.. especially shit like this!


Thanks
bass

It has a lot to do with this thread. I happen to agree with Dr_Diabolical. Prohormones produce more sides than gains. That's pretty much common knowledge and is well documented. Then there was the unnecessary smartass remark by YJ refuting that asking for scientific evidence to back up a well known fact. The central fact here is that YJ is in no position to present himself as being learned in the field and challenge other people's views after being exposed for the phony that he is. That is also very well documentated in a nice neat orderly fashion.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by Juice Authority
It has a lot to do with this thread. I happen to agree with Dr_Diabolical. Prohormones produce more sides than gains. That's pretty much common knowledge and is well documented. Then there was the unnecessary smartass remark by YJ refuting that asking for scientific evidence to back up a well known fact. The central fact here is that YJ is in no position to present himself as being learned in the field and challenge other people's views after being exposed for the phony that he is. That is also very well documentated in a nice neat orderly fashion.

Product more sides than gains? Im still waiting for some documentation on this issue....

Common knowledge? From who? Common knowledge doesnt cut it, some research and data does, something you have yet to present.

As for my smartass remarks, I dont think you're the board vigalante nor do you regulate whats said here, so thats a moot point. Ok, Im a phony, Im 15, I am a female, I know nothing about shit....

Let's stop the bullshit and name calling, I dont want this thread locked so please present your research for the forementioned statements and we'll see where it goes from there.

[goliath.jr]

...just out of curiosity - where is the independent research that proves andro products even work. i've tried several of them and got sick of wasting my money...granted, it was back when the first transdermal products were just being indroduced...

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by goliath.jr
...just out of curiosity - where is the independent research that proves andro products even work. i've tried several of them and got sick of wasting my money...granted, it was back when the first transdermal products were just being indroduced...

Good point and to be fair, not all PH supplements work. Im mainly speaking of 1-test (which is actually a steroid) and things like 4-AD, 19-nor, 5-alpha, etc. If you get these PHs from a reputable company (ie. Ergopharms, Higher Power, Avant Labs, Molecular Nutrition, BDC Nutrition, etc.) You're getting what you pay for and they will work. The claims that they dont work is like saying "I injected 400mgs a of test a week for 10 weeks and didnt gain shit" Well I would have to say, your fault. PHs, just like AAS are only a minor part of the equation. If your training sucks, diet is terrible, you probably wont gain much. Granted with AAS you have a little more room for error, but in principle is what Im speaking of.

I think that testimonials speak for themselves of responsible users of PHs.... but of course everyone wants more than that, and being as picky as I am, I do also. But there's no real evidence that proves PHs give more sides, etc. thank gains. No one has yet explained the physiological process in which this occurs, and if in fact it does, I would love to know........

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
Good point and to be fair, not all PH supplements work. Im mainly speaking of 1-test (which is actually a steroid) and things like 4-AD, 19-nor, 5-alpha, etc. If you get these PHs from a reputable company (ie. Ergopharms, Higher Power, Avant Labs, Molecular Nutrition, BDC Nutrition, etc.) You're getting what you pay for and they will work. The claims that they dont work is like saying "I injected 400mgs a of test a week for 10 weeks and didnt gain shit" Well I would have to say, your fault. PHs, just like AAS are only a minor part of the equation. If your training sucks, diet is terrible, you probably wont gain much. Granted with AAS you have a little more room for error, but in principle is what Im speaking of.

I do have a few abstracts I will track down for you where weight training athletes who use various PHs gained so much on their 1RM and secreted various anabolics in their urine. I think that testimonials speak for themselves of responsible users of PHs.... but of course everyone wants more than that, and being as picky as I am, I do also. But there's no real evidence that proves PHs give more sides, etc. thank gains. No one has yet explained the physiological process in which this occurs, and if in fact it does, I would love to know........

wait a second here. you're making not rude, but fairly abrasive comments asking for proof of his claims when you have no proof of your own? c'mon YJ - i'd expect more than that from you. and if 1-test is a steroid, why do i see people constantly using in context as a PH? is it just that it has not yet been officially classified as a steroid? sorry, admittedly - my PH knowledge is somewhat lacking.

i'm with you on not following the testimonials though - the placebo effect is very real and can account for a lot.

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by goliath.jr
wait a second here. you're making not rude, but fairly abrasive comments asking for proof of his claims when you have no proof of your own? c'mon YJ - i'd expect more than that from you.

No, If you're going to say something is bunk, then prove it. Otherwise its innocent until proven guilty. If you think its shit, then dont use it, but dont preach about it being useless when you have nothing to back up your claims. Thats common sense.

and if 1-test is a steroid, why do i see people constantly using in context as a PH? is it just that it has not yet been officially classified as a steroid? sorry, admittedly - my PH knowledge is somewhat lacking.

People assume its a PH since its legal.

i'm with you on not following the testimonials though - the placebo effect is very real and can account for a lot.

I follow testimonials, but I dont hold them as the holy grail of information. Jarconis for example: http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/s...d=18905....ask him what his transformation included. All transdermal PHs and 1-test. Granted nutrition's #1, but I dont think that can be classified as placebo. Jar isnt the only one out there, people have great gains and pumps from 1-test, et al.

[goliath.jr]

Originally posted by YellowJacket
No, If you're going to say something is bunk, then prove it. Otherwise its innocent until proven guilty. If you think its shit, then dont use it, but dont preach about it being useless when you have nothing to back up your claims. Thats common sense.

sure, but if you're gonna say it's legit, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders, not that of the skeptics. and if you have personal experience with it, then your claims are justified and by no means unfounded.
innocent till proven guilty? can't say that i agree with you there...

Originally posted by YellowJacket

I follow testimonials, but I dont hold them as the holy grail of information. Jarconis for example: http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/s...d=18905....ask him what his transformation included. All transdermal PHs and 1-test. Granted nutrition's #1, but I dont think that can be classified as placebo. Jar isnt the only one out there, people have great gains and pumps from 1-test, et al.

his transformation is impressive to say the least. just as you said, his progress was a result of a good diet and training. i think that 100% of his results could be attributed to those two factors actually. i bet that he didn't workout at all before he went on his 'quest'. new trainees always experience great strength and muscle gains in the begining...

[YellowJacket]

Originally posted by goliath.jr
sure, but if you're gonna say it's legit, the burden of proof rests on your shoulders, not that of the skeptics. and if you have personal experience with it, then your claims are justified and by no means unfounded.

No no, you're failing to read the whole thread.... the original quote was 'most pro hormones give more sides than gains' therefore the burden of proof is on the original poster of that cooment to prove why and how PHs cause more sides than gains.

innocent till proven guilty? can't say that i agree with you there...

To each his own. Ive had friends who've used them and thousands of posters at AnabolicMinds & Avant Labs boards who think 1-test/4-ad are the utopia of muscle gains. Of course, this is great but I like to see it on paper, but no such paper really exists just as no paper exists that PHs give more sides thank gains. Now you can go tell all those people what theyre seeing is placebo if you'd like.

his transformation is impressive to say the least. just as you said, his progress was a result of a good diet and training. i think that 100% of his results could be attributed to those two factors actually. i bet that he didn't workout at all before he went on his 'quest'. new trainees always experience great strength and muscle gains in the begining...

Sure, he could have tranformed like that 100% naturally, but how long would it have taken him? A hell of a lot longer with some artifical assistance.

[Striated]

Getting back to the MAIN topic, I'm wondering how "Superfreakman" has made out with his situation... an update is definitely in order. It's often strange when we engage in these types of threads and a conclusion is NOT reached. Did he have success with the prohormones? Did he switch to AAS? Did he get a divorce? Is he rotting in prison?

Enquiring Minds want to know!
Enough trash talk. More reality.

[3Vandoo]

change wife!

[jack hust]

yj knows his ph ask him for some advise bro he knows his stuff

[organdoner]

i don't post here alot but i'd like to add my imput. first of all most boards are going in a negative direction with a pissing contest every other thread. you bros are respected and looked upon for positive info. i rate you guys up there with the best but when a few knowledgeable bros get toghther sometimes it can be non informative. i hope this doesn't get me banned but leave the bickering to pm's. i'm sure many agree but don't have the guts to say so. i truly respect you bros and have learned so much from each of you. to the bro who started this thread just cook up some fina and tel the wife it's whatever you get from GNC. with RESPECT to all. peace.