how many of u make ur own gear ?

[spidey]

Originally posted by gonzaox
Clean??? How the hell do you know its clean?? Because you washed your hands before making it?? Because you did it in your kitchen instead of your bathroom?? Because you cleaned your oven with easy off before baking your gear? Tell me bro...how is this gear you produce in your home clean?

It is clean because I sterile filter it through a 0.20 micron filter into a new sterile vial that has just been wiped down with alcohol before penetrating the stopper. It is clean because I use all new sterile packaged syringes and needles and am careful not to let anything touch them after opening the package.

[spidey]

Originally posted by basskiller
Spidey, Sorry bro.. But a sterile syringe filter doesn't add to the sterilization process..
When you see sterile on the package.. All that is telling you is that it is packaged in a sterile environment...

It will not sterilize anything.. Just remove particulate matter down to .20 microns... It's the BA that we use in home brews for sterilization.

Actually Bass, it does sterilize. The average size of bacteria is about 0.6 microns. Spores like staph or mold can be as small as 0.3 to 0.4 microns. A 0.2 micron filter is small enough to actually filter out the bacteria and spores.

This is how we sterilize our growth media for cell culture. When you are trying to grow up a specific strain or cell line, your media and everything else must be 100% absolutely sterile. Otherwise, you will just end up growing bacteria colonies because the environment in the culture dish is optimum for growth (temperature, %CO2, nutrients are all perfect). You know pretty quickly if you got contamination by bacteria. We work in a sterile room in a sterile cell culture hood. The room even has positive pressure so when you open the door, air flows out of the room and not in (so it can't blow in dust or bacteria).

Running it through a 0.2 micron filter does a better job of sterilizing than does baking at 250 for an hour. Baking will not kill spores but the filter will remove them.

[skye]

Well said bro. .22 filters is better than anything.

Gonzaox: No flame here but you need to read up some more on the process. Small mom and pop pharmacies make stuff all the time in offices. We can do the same. It is completely unnecessary to be a huge lab. And as far my kitchen being clean, yes it was because I ran 25ppm ozone in it. (This is probably unnecessary, I am just retentive) My oven is also sterile, if your using it how can it not be? Its not necessary to use it anyway, just sterile filter and use BA. Yes I did wash my hands, and used latex gloves.

Also, your taking your cleanroom example out of context. (I’ve worked in clean rooms) Cleanrooms are almost always used for manufacturing processes. That is they are used primarily for processes that can’t tolerate contamination. The only time there relied on for sterility is for things that can’t be sterilized any other way. (no heat, chemicals, filtering)

Someone was asking about powder quality. It’s going to vary just like any other gear, which is from very good to bunk. Your best bet is to always test it. Easy test that you can do at home are melting point (always do this one), solubility, and density. If your not happy with the purity of your powder look into recrystallization, done right it will yield high quality powder.

Skye

[gonzaox]

Originally posted by spidey
Actually Bass, it does sterilize. The average size of bacteria is about 0.6 microns. Spores like staph or mold can be as small as 0.3 to 0.4 microns. A 0.2 micron filter is small enough to actually filter out the bacteria and spores.

This is how we sterilize our growth media for cell culture. When you are trying to grow up a specific strain or cell line, your media and everything else must be 100% absolutely sterile. Otherwise, you will just end up growing bacteria colonies because the environment in the culture dish is optimum for growth (temperature, %CO2, nutrients are all perfect). You know pretty quickly if you got contamination by bacteria. We work in a sterile room in a sterile cell culture hood. The room even has positive pressure so when you open the door, air flows out of the room and not in (so it can't blow in dust or bacteria).

Running it through a 0.2 micron filter does a better job of sterilizing than does baking at 250 for an hour. Baking will not kill spores but the filter will remove them.

Yes spidey...good to know your company's cleanroom is well balanced with positive pressure, but is your home also positive balanced?? I can run a couple of ss ducts through your living room, attach some ULPA filters and positively balance your home so that when you open the bathroom doors all of the bacteria will rush in there. If you are not doing this in that kind of enviroment, you cannot call your product sterile as per GMP, USP and Biopharm standards

You are also right in saying a .22micron filter will sterilize your gear . That is true. Everyone should use these size filters when home brewing. Much safer.

[gonzaox]

Originally posted by skye
Well said bro. .22 filters is better than anything.

Gonzaox: No flame here but you need to read up some more on the process. Small mom and pop pharmacies make stuff all the time in offices. We can do the same. It is completely unnecessary to be a huge lab. And as far my kitchen being clean, yes it was because I ran 25ppm ozone in it. (This is probably unnecessary, I am just retentive) My oven is also sterile, if your using it how can it not be? Its not necessary to use it anyway, just sterile filter and use BA. Yes I did wash my hands, and used latex gloves.

Also, your taking your cleanroom example out of context. (I’ve worked in clean rooms) Cleanrooms are almost always used for manufacturing processes. That is they are used primarily for processes that can’t tolerate contamination. The only time there relied on for sterility is for things that can’t be sterilized any other way. (no heat, chemicals, filtering)



Skye

Pharmaceutical companies manufacture their pruducts under pressurized systems, no air or anything can get into these systems, the pruduct is pumped through long lines of pipe to their final destination....dispensing units.....where are they located??? Inside a cleanroom bro. Not a room cleaned with ozone or UV or anything like that. I don't need to read up on the process bro.....I can send you some PNID's if you wish.

[buckshot]

Originally posted by gonzaox
Pharmaceutical companies manufacture their pruducts under pressurized systems, no air or anything can get into these systems, the pruduct is pumped through long lines of pipe to their final destination....dispensing units.....where are they located??? Inside a cleanroom bro. Not a room cleaned with ozone or UV or anything like that. I don't need to read up on the process bro.....I can send you some PNID's if you wish.

most gear used by people like ourselves is probably underground,i seriously doubt most underground labs are anything close to what you are describing.homebrew cant be any worse than your average u/g gear

[gonzaox]

I really give props to all of you who make your own....I don't think I have the balls to try it....maybe someday.....

[Backon]

I agree learned alot on this thread but after makeing all my own gear the last 18 months I have yet to get an infection or abcess. Like I did from Brovel the cycle before.

Also when you speak of spores won't the heating and cooling process done multiple times breakdown the structure of the spore and allow it to be destroyed? At least that has been what my thoughts were on it.

I also think that several of the points above pertain to why you can't buy GH powder in bulk and break it down into vials with out the proper enviorment since the protein would start to degrade right away.

[Lmg2701]

Holy shit this turned out to be an interesting post but O well I still like my homebrew Fina.

[Lift Chief]

The key with using a .2 micron filter to sterilise is that you need to have a reasonably sterile product before the filtering process. Spidey is of course right that a .2 micron filter will get rid of bacterial spores that baking would not kill.

However- if you decided to filter say your urine with a .2 micron filter you still would not drink it afterwards. While this is an extreme example the point is that you should maintain as sterile as possible of an environment when making the gear. If it's too dirty even with the sterile filter you may have problems.

[spidey]

Originally posted by Lift Chief
The key with using a .2 micron filter to sterilise is that you need to have a reasonably sterile product before the filtering process. Spidey is of course right that a .2 micron filter will get rid of bacterial spores that baking would not kill.

However- if you decided to filter say your urine with a .2 micron filter you still would not drink it afterwards. While this is an extreme example the point is that you should maintain as sterile as possible of an environment when making the gear. If it's too dirty even with the sterile filter you may have problems.

LOL. No, of course I wouldn't drink urine but that isn't really a good analogy anyway. Unless you have a kidney or bladder infection, urine is sterile to start with. It really doesn't matter how much bacteria is in your gear to start. A 0.2 micron filter will get it all out, no question. Where you might have problems is contaminating your homebrew with something that actually dissolves in the oil solution (oven spray residues, household cleaners, etc). A filter won't do jack for non-particulate contamination so I agree; some care needs to be taken even if you plan to filter afterward.

Backon - Spores are amazingly resiliant little bastards. They can withstand several hundred degrees, intense cold, straight alcohol, and in some cases, even bleach. The only reliable way to get rid of them is to filter through a 0.2 micron filter. They are small enough to pass through a 0.45 micron filter. I learned this lesson first hand.

My first cycle I filtered through a 0.45 micron filter (small enough to filter out 99+% of all bacteria, but not spores) and baked the finished product at 120 deg C (248 deg F) for two hours. I assumed it to be sterile. Lucky for me (but not my friend), my best friend took the first shot. Two days later he developed a staph infection. Apparently, there were staph spores present in my 0.45 micron filtered and baked gear. I took the gear and refiltered through a 0.2 micron filter and took a shot myself. No problems. The 0.2 micron filter removed the staph spores.