Ldex question

[prolangtum]

I also did a search and turned up zero results on estrogenic rebound from aromatose inhibitors.................

[mcbvr6]

Interesting for sure. I'll need to look into it a little further. Do you think it still applies when one is only running .25 mgs per day? This wouldn't be enough to stop all estrogen production, just limit it to what would seem to be a reasonable level. Do you advocate running arimidex during your cycles, or are you anti-arimidex all together? If so, how do you run it (doses, and when do you stop)?

[smalls]

Pro, I dont pretend to be up on my endocrine physiology, but I have seen this study quoted to back the idea of using ldex post cycle. I guess what NANDI said kind of shows how this could be a negative but his info is really not backed with studies ect. What do ya think?



Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. nmauras@nemours.org

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production.


It is not clear,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole).

First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of Testosterone withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum Testosterone (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

[prolangtum]

intresting read, but nothing conclusive, i have also read why armidex can be used post cycle, or at least the theory behind it. OF all anti-aromatose drugs, i would choose femera to run post cycle.

[italia215]

ok guys, now you've got me all torn! the main reason i wanted to run ldex is to supress acne. im not too conserned about water cause i'll be doing tons of cardio. ive never experienced any gyno sides so i dont think im real prone to it.

however, i do need to take something post cycle with my clomid. every time ive taken test ive broke out during post cycle. this is my main concern. what would you all suggest be the best option for reducing post cycle acne.

i just put in my "donation" for ldex but havent paid yet so im open to any other suggestions.

thanks

[prolangtum]

Well B5 will help the acne. I woudl suggest either lowering your clomid dose post cycle, and adding nolva, or using nolva only. As far as on cycle, Femera is your best option IMO.

[smalls]

IMO from everything I have read and a lot of intelligent experienced bro's I would say finasteride would be best at reducing acne. AKA proscar.

[prolangtum]

Yes DHT inhibiting should help some, but dotn go overboard, a little DHT is good.

[smalls]

Trubidy true. 1mg ed should be more than enough. Start out with less and see how it effects you.

[italia215]

Originally posted by prolangtum
Yes DHT inhibiting should help some, but dotn go overboard, a little DHT is good.

DHT?, help me out on that one. B5 also sounds like a good idea. PRO, could you also explain a little why youd go with Femera instead of ldex other than having to do with colestoral?? and also what is finasteride and how would i dose that?

i feel like a damn newbie all over again!!

[prolangtum]

DHT is an androgenic metabolite, that serves many functions in the body. Basically all the bad sides are cause by DHT, hairloss, acne, prostate inflamation. But some DHT is necassary for everyday life.

I read in the new MD about Femera vs. Arimidex, and in some study on post menopausal women with breast cancer, those treated with arimidex still showed aromatose activity in 11 of the 12 patients, whereas the group treated with letrozole showed none. Femera has been shown 10-30 times more potent than armidex at inhibting aromatose inside cells.

[italia215]

thanks pro im gonna look into the femera. also i just got back from a pharm and i couldn't find any vitamin B5. were you even refering to a vitamin??

[Dragon]

femara is not as good as armidex post cycle. DO a search on it, I posted studies before on this board. Femara it self cuase an estrogenic rebound, dex does not. Best would to run femara thruogh cycle and dex after.

[Dragon]

Read this:

http://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2469&highlight=femara+dragon

[prolangtum]

I wouldnt run any at all, arimidex or femera

italia, B5 is also known as Panthoiec Acid (sp?) well its close to that