Detoxifying the liver? Lol

[exphys88]

How exactly are toxins measured pre and post detox? Hint: they aren't, so claiming there are less is not quantifiable.

There has never been a physiological explanation on how the detox supps actually detox the liver

Nobody has answered my initial questions, which are legitimate.

Saying you feel better after a cleanse doesn't mean anything in terms of efficacy. Placebo effect is very strong.

[BABY1]

Re: Detoxifying the liver? Lol

One measure would be your alt and ASt levels pre cleanseand then post cleanse. that is not the only test foliver functions,as you know,but it could be one

[exphys88]

One measure would be your alt and ASt levels pre cleanseand then post cleanse. that is not the only test foliver functions,as you know,but it could be one

Are you aware of any data on this?

[BABY1]

Re: Detoxifying the liver? Lol

Are you aware of any data on this?

Yes, mr personal data. That is proof for me and i do not need a group of doogie howsers to tell me that

[exphys88]

Yes, mr personal data. That is proof for me and i do not need a group of doogie howsers to tell me that

What I meant is there any data showing that by reducing liver enzymes, there are less toxins. Or is there any bit of evidence comparing humans using detox supps vs those using a placebo, or any type of research to speak of?

[BABY1]

Re: Detoxifying the liver? Lol

it is you that feels the need for proof so you should really do your own research. My research consists of things that have helpedpeople and i do not care to research scientific studies. they don'tmean a wholelot to meand are based on a number of people that tend to be lower anyway then the number of people who have positive personal expetriences with methods i believe in. it is not that i am against treating with medicine ever,but i look for other ways as well.

[exphys88]

it is you that feels the need for proof so you should really do your own research. My research consists of things that have helpedpeople and i do not care to research scientific studies. they don'tmean a wholelot to meand are based on a number of people that tend to be lower anyway then the number of people who have positive personal expetriences with methods i believe in. it is not that i am against treating with medicine ever,but i look for other ways as well.

Ok, I guess the difference is that I require more than testimonials. I'm all for using methods other than medicine, which is why I pursued a career in clinical exercise physiology, I just don't buy testimonials because of the strong power of placebo effect.

[BABY1]

Re: Detoxifying the liver? Lol

Even if the placebo effect is what works for some, I would take it over taking some meds out there with side effects. At least if it is the placebo, there will be no side effects,lol.

[exphys88]

Even if the placebo effect is what works for some, I would take it over taking some meds out there with side effects. At least if it is the placebo, there will be no side effects,lol.

Actually people do get fake side effects. They're called nocebo effects. I read a study on chemo therapy and some in the control group actually reported similar side effects like hair falling out, nausea and fatigue.

If you're ok w placebo effect, just tell yourself that brushing your hair detoxes the liver, it's free!

[exphys88]

http://harvardmagazine.com/2005/05/the-nocebo-effect.html

[exphys88]

http://www.placeboeffect.com/nocebo-effect/

[TGB1987]

Re: Detoxifying the liver? Lol

I am not sure exactly what you are referring to as liver detox but if you talking about things like milk thistle, NAC, TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid), Polyenylphosphatidylcholine. There is a lot of evidence showing that these help protect and support liver function in many ways.. Everyone responds differently to everything from food to vitamins to prescription drugs. There is no cure all medicine or vitamin. If the user feels better after taking a vitamin supplement or prescription drug, or placebo then great because the end result is what matters. How the user gets there is not the main focus the end result is. To have doubts or be skeptical about something is fine but to say that something isn't possible or that something is flat out ineffective is just being close minded. Many things are debateable in life but that doesn't mean either side is best for everyone. The liver is a very complex organ. We do have blood tests to moniter liver function but even these are not 100% accurate as to how the liver is functioning. There is reason to believe that many liver support supplements do have a positive effect on the liver. If you don't believe so fine you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean your beliefs fit everyone nor should you assume they should. For every study you can pull up showing these ingredients were ineffective there are at least an equal number showing they are effective at supporting healthy liver function. There is no need for negativity there is no one clear cut answer.

[exphys88]

I am not sure exactly what you are referring to as liver detox but if you talking about things like milk thistle, NAC, TUDCA (Tauroursodeoxycholic acid), Polyenylphosphatidylcholine. There is a lot of evidence showing that these help protect and support liver function in many ways.. Everyone responds differently to everything from food to vitamins to prescription drugs. There is no cure all medicine or vitamin. If the user feels better after taking a vitamin supplement or prescription drug, or placebo then great because the end result is what matters. How the user gets there is not the main focus the end result is. To have doubts or be skeptical about something is fine but to say that something isn't possible or that something is flat out ineffective is just being close minded. Many things are debateable in life but that doesn't mean either side is best for everyone. The liver is a very complex organ. We do have blood tests to moniter liver function but even these are not 100% accurate as to how the liver is functioning. There is reason to believe that many liver support supplements do have a positive effect on the liver. If you don't believe so fine you are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't mean your beliefs fit everyone nor should you assume they should. For every study you can pull up showing these ingredients were ineffective there are at least an equal number showing they are effective at supporting healthy liver function. There is no need for negativity there is no one clear cut answer.

No, I'm not referring to supps that lower liver enzymes. In referring to the belief that the liver gets full of toxins and that certain foods or supps clean them out. Here is a great article on the scams.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/detox_overview.html

[exphys88]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detoxification_(alternative_medicine)

"Detoxification is an alternative medicine approach that proponents claim rids the body of "toxins", accumulated harmful substances that are alleged to exert undesirable effects on individual health. Detoxification usually includes one or more of: dieting, fasting, consuming exclusively or avoiding specific foods (such as fats, carbohydrates, fruits, vegetables, juices, herbs, or water), colon cleansing, chelation therapy, or the removal of dental fillings.[1][2] Body cleansing is based on disproved scientific claims, and there is no clinical evidence that it is effective.[3][4][5] The toxins are usually undefined, with little to no evidence for toxic accumulation in the patient.[6] While it can be expensive, detoxification does not necessarily have to be.[7]"

[exphys88]

Criticism

Body cleansing and detoxification have been referred to as an elaborate hoax used by con artists to cure nonexistent illnesses. Some doctors contend that the "toxins" in question do not even exist.[1][19][20] Alternative medicine proponents frequently cite heavy metals or pesticides as the source of toxification; however, no evidence exists that detoxification approaches have a measurable effect on these or any other chemical levels. Medical experts state that body cleansing is unnecessary as the human body is naturally capable of maintaining itself, with several organs dedicated to cleansing the blood and gut.[21] Professor Alan Boobis OBE, Toxicologist, Division of Medicine, Imperial College London states that

The body’s own detoxification systems are remarkably sophisticated and versatile. They have to be, as the natural environment that we evolved in is hostile. It is remarkable that people are prepared to risk seriously disrupting these systems with unproven ‘detox’ diets, which could well do more harm than good.[13]

The apparently satisfied testimonial and anecdotal accounts by customers can often be explained by astroturfing companies or individuals creating false anecdotes, legitimate customers who are experiencing the placebo effect after using the products, natural recovery from an actual illness that would have occurred without the use of the product, psychological improvements on illnesses that are psychosomatic or the result of neurosis, or the lack of a larger number of dissatisfied customers not posting equally applicable anecdotes about their poorer experiences.[22]