the deal on BMR and AS use?????

[DOA]

ok so whats the deal???????? Most BMR formulas/outlines/multipliers are for those who DO NOT use AS. So if you were to use the BMR and also AS what would you do to tweek it to help obtain your goals be it mass or cutting???

I use the Harrison-Benidict formula just some FYI for you guys.

Have any of you guys used this method along with AS and if so what was the results????????????

Thanks Guys/Gals

DOA

[jamesbrosky]

whats is BMR???

[Drenten]

Originally posted by jamesbrosky
whats is BMR???

BMR is Basil Metabolic Rate. It is the amount of energy the body uses when at idle.

I don’t believe that steroids themselves change the BMR at all. Gaining muscle will change the BMR, but the steroids have no direct effect on BMR.

[DOA]

BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate. It shows how many calories your body need to sustain its body weight or how many cals you need to cut out to lose bf or to ad cals to gain weight. There are formulas that will help in the process of finding your BMR. It is used widely by most athletes to achieve the proper nutritional intake for there goals.

Does this help out any for you?

DOA

[DOA]

Drenten, how could the muscle gain change the BMR? I think it would be safer to say any gain weather fat or muscle will affect the BMR's end numbers. I calculate BMR with total body weight, b/c you are one body. I see people do the lean mass weight they have ( done by a hydro stat) and use that as their body weight figure. This IMO is incorrect because you are giving a false number to your actual air weight which is both fat and muscle cominded.

Like I stated before I think the involvment of anabolic could potentially alter the BMR for the simple fact that the body will absorb nutrients and convert them to fat and or muscle in a much more rapid rate than would a natural person. My question is this then; How much extra would you have to allow for muscle gain so aren't deficent in calories. My logical guess would be about 350 calories extra per day added to you base BMR for a gain in mass.

There are 2500 cals/ lb of muscle so 2500/7 = 357.14
357.14 should be the amount extra you need to make a muscle gain NATURALLY.

As far as AS use I am a bit skeptical on the use of the extra 350 cals or if it should be more.

This is where I need help.

DOA

[Drenten]

Originally posted by DOA
Drenten, how could the muscle gain change the BMR? I think it would be safer to say any gain weather fat or muscle will affect the BMR's end numbers.

Because muscle is metabolically active – if you have more muscle then you have more metabolically active tissue and a higher BMR. Of course, more fat would mean a higher BMR as well because you would need more calories to maintain the fat weight; I think the focus for our interests is muscle and not just weight.

Steroids can increase the uptake of nutrients, which can lead to bigger or denser muscle tissue, thus increasing the BMR. It is the larger and denser muscle that increases the BMR, not the steroids directly. If you were to take steroids and not weight train you wouldn’t gain any weight and your BMR most likely wouldn’t change much, if at all.

[DOA]

I can agree with that point of view since you explained further. So with that being said would you use the extra 350 cals per day to sustain a gain in mass or more cals per day to gain mass WITH the addition AS???

I think ultimately if you put too many calories you will add unwanted fat.

Mike Mentzer stated once: "Any thing more than what is minmally required to sustain a positve growth in muscle will inevitably turn to fat." Good statement, but I wish he would have laid down the blue print or some specific guidelines in setting a diet regimine.

DOA

[Drenten]

Honestly, I’m probably not the person to answer your question; I find no merit in lean bulk cycles. Also, I don’t get too concerned with calculations and formulas.

I believe that when the body is in maximum anabolic drive you will gain fat as well as muscle. Notice that I said “maximum” anabolic drive, which is what I want to achieve from a bulk cycle. I am not concerned with gaining fat during a bulk cycle; actually, I am concerned that if I don’t see some fat gain that I am probably not gaining the maximum amount of muscle that I could be. Obviously, common sense (and the mirror) will tell you if you are gaining a little too much fat along with your muscle.

Also, I don’t know how much you weigh, but 350 calories a day is such a small amount that your body’s BMR would probably just adjust up or down to accommodate such a minor fluctuation (unless your BMR is really low to begin with). Sometimes adding more calories just means that your will burn more calories – ask any true “hardgainer”. Remember that your BMR is only a basic point of reference, it is not etched in stone, and your own BMR can fluctuate quite a bit from day to day.

I know my ramblings on this subject probably aren’t of any help to you because you are interested in attempting precision calculations, but I hope I didn’t cloud your thinking or discourage you.

Best of luck.

[Drenten]

Originally posted by Drenten
Also, I don’t know how much you weigh, but 350 calories a day is such a small amount that your body’s BMR would probably just adjust up or down to accommodate such a minor fluctuation (unless your BMR is really low to begin with).

I just realized that somehow I am assuming that you are a male.

Women are usually more sensitive to caloric changes, if only for the simple reason that men are usually larger than women are. A 350 calorie a day variation that, for me, probably wouldn’t make a blip of a difference, might be a significant variation for a 115 pound woman.

Sorry for rambling again, but I just wanted to point out the obvious, which is something that I have a great mastery of.

[DOA]

I am 5'8'' 24yrs old and 200lbs. I will ahve to get back with you on what I come up with as far as base BMR and things like that. I need to do the math work on it and I will be sure to post it here so you can get a better understanding of what I am trying to work with, ok? Hang tight and I will post soon.

Thanks,

DOA

[DOA]

Ok here are my figures. Converting over my weight from lbs to kg and my height from inches to cm and adding my weight and age I come up with a BMR of 3315.048 calories per day to maintain my current body weight of aprrox 200lbs.

Now to gain weight, approx a pound of muscle per week (in theory) I need to add approx. 350 cals to the daily BMR I have which is 3315.048.

Now to lose weight, approx 1 pound per wk (in theory) I need to subtract 500 cals from my daily BMR I have which is 3315.048.

Now with the addition of AS if I add the 350 cals to the BMR I should theoretically gain the optimal amount of wieght with little fat gain. The same should hold true when becoming calorie defficient and trying to cut down the bf. A reduction of 500 cals along with the porper AS for a cutting cycle should more than yeild a good loss in bf and hopefully maintain and/or gain some quality muscle provided the diet/cardio/resistance traing is dialed in.

Does this help you out in trying to figure out my questions to this whole BMR issue and AS use, Drenten?

Let em know what you think.

DOA