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  • #31
    My physician told me to absolutely stay away from soy products of any type. There is plenty of evidence that links soy to higher levels of estrogen. In addition, estrogen may not be our friend when it comes to our prostate.

    There are so many sources of protein in this world... soy would be my last pick:


    Effects of soy in men

    A major concern of men is the possible effects of soy on the male endocrine (hormonal) system. While there have been few studies addressing the effects of phytoestrogen in males, what conclusions have been drawn are negative. 3a, 17B- androstanediol glucuronide and androstanediol glucuronide are DHT metabolites and are essential for male secondary sex characteristics as well as the anabolism of skeletal muscle. Obviously decreases in these hormones mean less lean mass, more stored body fat, and a possible retardation of male secondary sex characteristics.

    “In males, levels of 17B-estradiol and testosterone were not affected, but levels of 3a, 17B- androstanediol glucuronide (a metabolite of dihydrotestosterone) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate were decreased by 13% and 14%, respectively, after 2-4 weeks of daily soya ingestion.” (8)


    Androgens vs estrogens in prostate cancer
    GP Risbridger
    Monash University, Melbourne, Australia.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Androgens and increasing age are established risk factors associated with prostate cancer, Paradoxically, testosterone levels gradually decline with increasing age as the incidence of prostate cancer (PCa) rises in older men. Estrogens have been implicated in PCa as estrogen levels in older men remain relatively unchanged resulting in a decline in the ratio of androgens:estrogens with age. Thus the hormonal regulation of prostate cancer is not limited to a role for androgens and we propose that androgens in combination with estrogens are required for PCa. Our hypothesis is based on the following evidence. The estrogen deficient, ArKO, (aromatase knock out) mice have a life long elevation of androgens; the prostate is enlarged and leads to the development of BPH, but not PCa. Estrogens have systemic actions in the male that include the suppression of testicular androgen synthesis leading to prostatic atrophy. As well, estrogens have local, direct actions on the prostate gland. In many mammalian species, including mice and men, estrogens induce proliferative change to the epithelium leading to squamous metaplasia, an effect that is mediated via the ERalpha subtype. Prolonged exposure to high levels of estrogen initiate an inflammatory response probably mediated via the ERbeta subtype. In the absence of androgens, estrogens do not induce malignancy. We conclude that neither testosterone nor estrogen alone is sufficient to induce malignancy, but a combination of both is required for the development of PCa.

    All men will develop prostate cancer if they live long enough. Several recent studies show that a man's susceptibility to prostate cancer may be influenced more by his exposure to the female hormone, estrogen, than to the male hormone, testosterone.

    A derivative of the male hormone, testosterone, stimulates the prostate to grow, but a recent article in the medical journal, Prostate, suggests that it does this only after the prostate has been sensitized by the female hormone, estrogen. (1) Men with the highest blood levels of estrogen are the ones most likely to get prostate cancer (2). Blood levels of the male hormones, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone, produced by a man's body are not associated with susceptibility to suffer prostate cancer (2). Prostate cancer is not associated with frequency of sexual activity and there is no evidence that it is caused by taking male hormones or an infection. Athletes who take large doses of male hormones have not been shown to be at increased risk for prostate cancer.

    A high fat, low-vegetable diet is associated with an increased risk for prostate cancer, and a low-fat diet that is rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains and beans is associated with protection against this cancer (3). A study in the British journal, Lancet, shows plant sterols help to shrink an enlarged prostate at least as much as Proscar does, and when given to humans, plant sterols block some of the effects of the female hormone, estrogen.(4) So, eat a low-fat diet that contains fruits, vegetables, whole grains and beans that are rich sources of sterols and other phytochemicals to block human estrogens and oxidant reactions in the body.



    Again, there are lots of conflicting studies out there, and I'm not here to preach, but I'm leaning towards staying away from estrogen and getting a CRP test as opposed to watching my cholesterol.
    I know nothing about any of this insanity... it's just a fun game to me.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Striated
      My physician told me to absolutely stay away from soy products of any type. There is plenty of evidence that links soy to higher levels of estrogen. In addition, estrogen may not be our friend when it comes to our prostate.
      Ah the wonderful world of health and fitness. It seems as though we can never get a definitive answer on anything. I read a study that suggested that soy had a gender neutralizing effect. Meaning that it increased Estrogen in women and testosterone in males. I do not have it handy, but I will try to find it in the near future.
      R.I.P. GearedUp

      Lord, make me strong, and let the weak find comfort in my strength.



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      • #33
        I have a friend that works in protein manufacturing says that the amount of soy taken in to have an effect on test or estrogen levels whould be much more than any person could consume to have an effect, and that the soy protein raising estrogens in male or female to act as anti-anabolic is a myth. If anything it would have a positive effect on test. Says that people read and hear things and either get info screwed up or they hear passed down information that is not true and rely on this as fact. Once person believes the information as true, it is hard to change their minds, because they will forget where or how the infor was given and it become a part of their sub-conscious as fact so they believe this as true.

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        • #34
          GET THE BIGGEST EGG THEY GOT
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          • #35
            Originally posted by mick-G
            I have a friend that works in protein manufacturing says that the amount of soy taken in to have an effect on test or estrogen levels whould be much more than any person could consume to have an effect, and that the soy protein raising estrogens in male or female to act as anti-anabolic is a myth. If anything it would have a positive effect on test. Says that people read and hear things and either get info screwed up or they hear passed down information that is not true and rely on this as fact. Once person believes the information as true, it is hard to change their minds, because they will forget where or how the infor was given and it become a part of their sub-conscious as fact so they believe this as true.

            Your friend may be entirely correct, it's just that my preferred sources of protein are beef, fish, chicken, and turkey. I don't mean to slam soy, I was only regurgitating what my doctor told me and the evidence is corroberated by at least one study...

            If soy is someone's game, then so be it. My exposure to soy was extremely limited: miso soup when I had sushi.

            I guess it comes down to what you prefer and what you respond to. I really don't see much of an effect with all those whey protein shakes and have happily decided to eat whole foods only.


            Hey Fuzo... have you ever eaten an ostrich egg? Those things are pretty big!
            I know nothing about any of this insanity... it's just a fun game to me.

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            • #36
              You should cook your eggs all the time. The nutritional value is higher when cooked. Also eating the yolks are not bad for you, unless you are dieting. If not dieting, take you other fats in your daily food intake. Eggs have the highest biological value in protein.
              If you are hungry, EAT. If you are tired, SLEEP. If your test is low, GET JACKED.

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              • #37
                Striated, I was not implying that one use soy as a staple in their diet. Just to use as a supplement, as with whey. Animal protein ie., chicken, turkey, beef like you say. There is no evidence that soy increases estrogen in men. In fact it can have a positive effect on test if not taken over 60gm ed. There is a study that shows that Asian societies have 70% less cancer than western because their diet of soy and rice. As far as it not making a difference as to men getting prostate cancer if they didn't get it at a younger age; that is false.. The chances of getting prostate after 50 become less and after 65 even less. Of course diet and health habbits play a role. ( smoking, drinking excessively) As far as eggs, I do use 1 yolk to every 4 egg white, just dr. told me to watch cholest. as mine is borderline. I also avoid cheese, roasted nuts and hydrogenated oils or animal fat. I don't mean to differ, but one can get different studies to prove others wrong. All in all one must draw their own conclusions.

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                • #38
                  That sounds really gross! Where do you get these? Maybe good for next Halloween, lol!

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                  • #39
                    Thats good to know GP. My gf is semi-vegan and she won't eat anything that was living or growing fed or sprayed with chemicals or pesticides. Only organic GMO free for her. I will do my egg buying at Wal-Mart next time.

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                    • #40
                      Eat the whole damn egg... Half the protien is in the yolk, not to mention the yolk is filled with god fats also.
                      Personally, when I eat to many eggs I fart.

                      10 large eggs whites = 30grams of protien
                      5 large whole eggs = 35 grams of protien plus many great nutrients and fats the body needs.

                      I agree with jackjuice 100%. I would much rather eat a natural fatty food that is high in protein. Then one that as been scientificly modified, just because the crap they replace the fats with is probable much worse for you.
                      I would always cook them, however, I wouldn't cook them in tons of butter or oils.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by GirlPatriot
                        I don't have time today to read this whole thread but someone may have already mentioned this. Stay away from those new eggs that have 600mg Omega-3 per egg! I repeat STAY AWAY!!! I swear to you those things taste and smell like fish. It is the nastiest thing I have ever experienced. There is no reason for an egg to resemble fish in any fashion. It just isn't right.
                        ~GP
                        I wonder if they feed them fish?
                        R.I.P. GearedUp

                        Lord, make me strong, and let the weak find comfort in my strength.



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                        • #42
                          Yes, taste and smell like ass. Too expensive as well. I like to go cheap...the eggs they sell 2.5 or 3 dozen ina package. Yolks are where the fat is, and half of the protein. It is winter, eat all yer yolks...

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                          • #43
                            I believe organic means that the hen or cock was fed only on organic feed since birth. Certified organic crops must be grown with only natural manure products and water and re-harvested for 4-7yr before getting the certification for organic.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by saturn
                              Eating a raw egg is like sucking down snot.
                              yeah, that shit is just gross as a *****
                              "The Most Incredible Baby"



                              hussle-man@hushmail.com

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by saturn
                                Eating a raw egg is like sucking down snot.
                                yeah, that shit is just gross as a *****
                                "The Most Incredible Baby"



                                hussle-man@hushmail.com

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