TweetSven - thanks for your explanation about tren E

mick-G - I haven't heard that before..

Equalizer - someone mentioned that you shouldn't run an Enanthate for less than 12 weeks. So I was thinking of changing the Tren E to 12 weeks and the Test E to 14 weeks and think about the prop...but i'm thinking i will probably drop the Prop.
The Tren dosage depends on what I get per mg. 200 or 250 per cc

Should I drop the Dbol and use the Prop for a kicker?

Weeks 1-4 DBOL @ 30mgs ED
Weeks 1-12 TREN E @ 400 - 500mg (Mon/Thurs) shots
Weeks 1-14 TEST E @ 500mg (Mon/Thurs) shots

Week 5 till 3 days before Clomid
HCG - 312mg 2x a week (Mon/Thurs) shots

Weeks 2 – 14
LIQUIDEX(Anastro) (1mg per ML) – ½ cc EOD

NOLVADEX – Only take if I feel symptoms of gyno. Also will take 20mg ED for PCT

Clomid - 2 weeks after last shot of Test E

Bromo - (if i can get) have on hand just in case. Cause if i do get any signs of gyno i won't know where they will be coming from.....OR

B6 - 200mgED throughout cycle. 300mg twice daily if lactation arises. 300mgED during PCT

How do you take B6?? inject it? is it a pill? liquid that you can just put in your mouth and swallow??

TweetLooks solid bro, Again just personal preference on the d-bol or prop to kickstart. You may get a little less bloat from the prop.

Tweetyou can run enanthate for 10 weeks and it be effctive but there isnt anything wrong with 12 weeks either.

TweetDo the first layed out cycle Tuetonic. Start with DBOL and finish with prop. Also you want to run the Tren E a bit longer than 10 weeks IMO. I am not for LONG cycles but I like to get the most out of everything. For things such as Enanthate esters I would never go below 12 weeks. Just my personal opinion.

I would rather stay on 16-20 weeks than go at it for two different 10 weekers. You spend more time getting going on smaller cycles and recovering than you do actually growing and then replanning the next one out when you could just get it all done in a tad bit longer of a cycle.....Just my personal feelings on it. If I am going to run something I am going to make it worth it and not shoot my self short. I think I will personally run 16 weekers from now on. Might be just a "head" thing with me, but I dunno....

I am doing my first time with Tren E at 400mg/wk and hardly any night sweats. I get more sweats 20 minutes post injection than I do at night. My biggest deal, and it has only happend a few times was back pumps but other than that it has been good

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Originally Posted by mick-G

Its just a statement Sven. No direction, lol! It is just not necessary to have to take two inject ew of enathate or cypionate. I see many bros posting that its makes blood levels more stable etc, but it is more of a physic thing than anything else. Sure i myself do it sometimes, but in one wk your blood levels do not fluctuate that much to require multiple injects, especially when doing 400mg and up ew.

I would have to disagree with you here. Stable blood levels mean less sides such as acne, water retention, etc. etc. Also stable blood levels means more gear overall and you don't have UPS and DOWNS with your levels so it is more of an even pace. Look at what Pheendo posted for the halflife of Test E shot at 1 gram/week and 500mg/wk.



Enan example

July 1st- 1g

July 4th- 500mg

July 7th- 250mg <~~~Now you are going to shoot one time a week after your levels have dipped that much

July 10th-125mg

July 13th- 62.5mg



Now for 500mg

July 1st- 500mg

July 4th- 250mg

July 7th- 125mg<~~~Same deal here. I wouldn't wait till my levels got that low to shoot again

July 10th- 62.5mg

July 13th- 31.25mg


That is way too many ups and downs in my opinion......

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Originally Posted by Sven

I re-read the discussion at WCB and didnt find much, but I read an articl about longer esters being superior and more potent due to the build up. If I can find it I will post it. But I read it once and everything just clicked into place.

the answer is still.. BECAUSE I SAID SO......

I would have to disagree here too. LOL And here is why

First off I know the article you are talking about and it was written by Skyefire. He said that longer esterd gear maybe more potent than that of short estered gear. He used Tren E for an example and basically said how come people shooting 100mg/ED of Tren A can't handle shooting 750mg/wk of Tren E. Here is why:

Unstable blood levels.


Tren E is NOT more potent or does NOT build up in your blood system to exceed what you shoot per week. It is the Enanthate hormone causing influctuations in the blood levels. I have been shooting Tren E 400mg/wk and been nearing the end of my 16 week cycle and NO problems or sides other than what I mentioned earlier. I have been shooting Tren E EOD to help combat sides and blood level fluctuations and I believe that is why I have had little to no sides. This is my first time using Tren and by what everyone said I thought I was going to spazz out or flip out. I dunno. LOL But people made it worse than what it sounded.

Just a TAD bit of sweating here and there and back pumps, but back pumps I have gotten maybe 3-4 times. Other than the original starting of the cyle and a tiny bit of aggression I have been ok with the noticeable sides.



Here is some more info posted by GOT GEAR over at WCB about long estered gear and blood levels:

https://www.**********************.co...=ester+weights

I've seen this a couple of times now and I think people are getting confused.

If you take Test E for 10 weeks at 500mg/wk at NO POINT will your hormone levels excede the 500mg/wk dose (minus ester weight of course)

True, it'll take a few weeks before your body reaches it's maximum blood levels, but it WILL NOT exceede the 500mg/wk dose.

AS an example:

500mg/wk Test E vs 500mg/wk Test prop for 10 weeks.
Let's put ester weights aside as they are not relevent in this discussion.

At the end of week 1, testosterone levels in the person taking test prop will be much higher than the person taking test E.

At the end of week 2, testosterone levels in the person taking prop will be noticeably higher than the person taking test E.

-At the end of week 3, testosterone levels in the person taking prop will be only slightly higher.
-At the end of week 4, testosterone levels will be roughly the same.
-At the end of week 6, testosterone levels will be roughly the same.
-At the end of week 10, testsoterone levels will be roughly the same.
-At the end of week 11, testosteron levels in the person taking prop will be much LOWER than the person taking test E.
-at the end of week 12, testosteron levels in the person taking prop will be lower than the person taking test E.
-At the end of week 13, things start turning back to normal and testosterone levels return to about normal.

Again, this is putting ester weights aside.

Here is another reply by SUPERDUTY a few posts down explaining it a bit more.

Try to look at it like this: 500mg wk enan
Keep in mind that what is injected every week is not available right away

Wk 1 - 500 mg
Wk 2 - 500 + 250 (left over from first wk)
Wk 3 - 500 + 250 (left over from second wk) + 125 (1 wk)
Wk 4 - 500 + 250 (3 wk) + 125 (2 wk) + 62.5 (1 wk)
Wk 5 - 500 + 250 (4 wk) + 125 (3 wk) + 62.5 (2 wk) + 31.7 (1 wk)
Wk 6 - 500 + 250 + 125 + 62.5 + 31.7 + 15.8
Wk 7 - 500 + 250 + 125 + 62.5 + 31.7 + 15.8 + 7.9
and so on...

So to get the level that's free you add up all numbers except for the dose for that day/wk b/c it hasn't been broken down yet. So according to this your plasma levels wouldn't even reach 500 till about wk 8 or 9 b/c at wk 7 it is around 493 mg, that's why I'm a big fan of starting off a cycle with prop.

Peace,
SD

TweetGod point stout, I was shooting my tren once a week, and I got hard sides, but made awesome gains.

TweetBut Stout, why only 400mgs a week then?
Thats still less than normal doses of tren A?
I will swear till I die that you need LESS tren E than A.

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Originally Posted by Sven

BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!..lol...

lol

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Originally Posted by Sven

But Stout, why only 400mgs a week then?
Thats still less than normal doses of tren A?
I will swear till I die that you need LESS tren E than A.

Well some people first time run 50mg/ED of Tren A or 100mg/EOD. That would be 350mg/wk. So that is right about at 400mg/wk of Tren E.

I could always bump it up if need be. I was really actually kinda scared from what everyone was saying about sides, etc, etc, and horror stories about how they couldn't handle it. I know Swellin shoots all his gear, even long estered gear, ED or EOD to help combat sides. I decided to try this and IMO it works alot better.

Also another personal deal of mine is I would rather shoot 1cc 4X a week then 2cc's 2X a week. I like smaller more spread out injections than two big ones. Just a personal preference.....

Next time you do Tren E shoot it EOD and you will definitely notice a difference.

TweetStill i believe taking 400mg/wk and up of long ester test will not fluctuate blood levels in one wk to make any changes in sides etc. I have done many cycles with long esters and all injects of one a wk and never any probs with sides or results and i have done them both ways. Actually hrt is one inject e3w and we're talking here of 400mg/wk and higher one shot a wk will have no prob with blood level stablitly. Sorry but iam going with what i have heard from drs and personal experience and not on what some guy on a board determines to be fact and make his own conclusions, lol!

TweetThanks all for your input here...man..decisions..decisions!

Hey stout..just a question..a couple of people have said that I dont need the Prop at the end..that it wont really do anything to help. Why do you think I should keep it. Will it help maintain gains? put more weight on?? Not questioning you..just want to know if their is any reasoning behind it. Thanks bro for all your help so far.

Still dont know if I will be doing 400 or 500mg a week of TREN E...depends at what dosage I can get it at. But I will be shooting it 2x a week Mon/Thur

Tweetrunning prop at the end will set you up for PCT better, meaning you can get right to it without waiting 2 weeks for the long ester to fade out, then recover.... easier to retain gains and get back to norm quicker.