TweetThat is true to an extent. Though there are some AAS that will in fact make you more vascular and bring out striations in the muscles on people with fairly low body fat. Winstrol for example is one of those. It can actually pull more water weight off of you thus making you more lean. But you are correct about the diet part. With that said, throw HGH into the picture and you have a whole new story. HGH can actually rip people up while there diets are still poor.

TweetThat's very true....HGH can certainly do wonders....Shiner

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Originally Posted by Shiner22nd

When cutting, the main (99%) reason of running gear is solely for maintaining your gains while lowering caloric intake to burn fat. Correct?? Not to actually burn the fat.

Yes, gear keeps you in an "anabolic state" (increased protein synthesis) while cutting the calories. Too many people forget this.

TweetIf you are on a long cycle and you add a lot of good lean muscle mass your metabolism will go up. So, it is possible to burn more calories towards the end of your cycle which will cause you to get leaner. But, the best way to get cut is diet or the stuff you mentioned.

Tweetyep, yep, yep, lol

TweetAll very good points. Good posts guys.

TweetUgh, i cant spit out what i wanna say on this subject so overall i agree w/ both of you but more w/ jsjs24 because weather i'm cutting or bulking i plan on adding muscle, because when im cutting my protien is usually higher than when im chillin in the off season.

TweetSo basically winstrol doesn't help you burn more fat? It will just help you maitain muscle mass? I've read on some other boards and from other people that it will make you rip without having to diet. So I'm assuming people who say this must already have low bodyfat in order for that statement to be true. So would combining Clen and Winstrol and maybe test prop be a good cutter cycle or test prop isn't needed?

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Originally Posted by supasaiyan99

So basically winstrol doesn't help you burn more fat? It will just help you maitain muscle mass? I've read on some other boards and from other people that it will make you rip without having to diet. So I'm assuming people who say this must already have low bodyfat in order for that statement to be true. So would combining Clen and Winstrol and maybe test prop be a good cutter cycle or test prop isn't needed?

You got it. Winny will not actually burn fat. Most people take it while they are dieting because it will bring out the vascularity. It will add some lean mass but very little. If it was me, I would do:

Enanthate weeks 1-12
Winny weeks 11-16 (6 weeks)
Clen weeks 11-16 (some people say the effects diminish after 4 to 5 weeks)
PCT

Or:

EQ weeks 1-16
Winny weeks 9-16 (8 weeks)
Clen weeks 11-16
PCT
You can take winny longer with EQ because the EQ will keep your tendons healthy and strong. Winny can make your tendons brittle. You wont gain a lot of mass on this but if you diet right you will have a lot of good lean mass and be ripped up really nice.

PS- if you do cardio it's best to limit the amount of test you take in. The human heart has more test receptors than any other muscle in the body. Taking test with high level of cardio will make you heart grow. A big heart is not a healthy heart.

Tweeti had asked the question a while back about taking test while doing cardio, because i am an endurance athlete and the response i got back was my heart was already enlarged due to years of training and a moderate dose of test would no cause too much damage.

also i feel test should be run during every cycle if not for mass atleast to keep the pee pee working.

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Originally Posted by badasz32

i had asked the question a while back about taking test while doing cardio, because i am an endurance athlete and the response i got back was my heart was already enlarged due to years of training and a moderate dose of test would no cause too much damage.

also i feel test should be run during every cycle if not for mass atleast to keep the pee pee working.

Yea, a lot of people feel it should be run in every cycle. But when you see some of the scans I've seen of my bro's back in Atl and their hearts 1 and 1/2 times the size they should be. Those guys wont make it past 50, no pukin way. The enlarged heart will wear out. It's not like our other muscles.

NOW, don't get over worried. It's a possibilty that you control. If the heart has the most test receptors and your take high levels of test and do high levels of cardio for a long time your heart will grow. IF you take low levels of test and you cut out or take very little during cardio phases you reduce the possibility. The reason why most don't suffer from it is because most of us don't do long distance cardio. But, if you don't beilieve me jsut as a cardiologist. I talked with a few and they all say it's better to use other stuff. Look at Blink, that guy is huge and he does an EQ/Tren stack.

TweetT-Man, those are two excellent posts....thanks for the info

Badasz, Nice quote about the "pee pee"! lol You ain't kiddin!

Good discussion

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Originally Posted by badasz32

i had asked the question a while back about taking test while doing cardio, because i am an endurance athlete and the response i got back was my heart was already enlarged due to years of training and a moderate dose of test would no cause too much damage.

also i feel test should be run during every cycle if not for mass atleast to keep the pee pee working.

Lol, Badasz32 go to a cardiologist if you want to find out if you have an enlarged heart, don't listen to ppl that don't know what they are talking about and try to self diagnose. Moderate cardio is prob the best thing you can do for overall fitness. Unless you are doing mega dosages of aas and very heavy weight training, and i will add a propensity genetically for heart problems, then i wouldn't worry. If you are having signs of fatigue, trouble breathing, or chest pains, then i would schedule a visit to your dr..