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Originally Posted by LARGE&INCHARGE

^^^
Ditto - Like I said before, there is steroid use and then there is abuse

Correct. But the bottom line is, if we were all honest with each other, the real reason we are taking them is because of some sort of insecurity with ourselves. Sure, someone can argue with me and say "Nah. I'm taking them because I want to bench more, etc......" But why do you want to bench more? Because you want to be the strong guy in the gym for attention. It's not a bad thing. We're all in the same boat here.

TweetI be honest. Personally i reached my potential and i was 35yr old, enough to make a mature decision. I did all the research etc. Found out what to use and how to minimize sides. I found out, imo that the positives outweighted the negatives so i did a cycle. I not trying to be in any contests., just doing it for my own personal satisfaction. If someone doesn't like that, well then thats their prob. I just don't like see these kids come on and think they know everything and ask all these questions when they don't take any advice seriously and don't do the proper research, especially when their only 17-21yr old and just want to be big. Oh, i would say you are prob right on your % of ppl doing aas right way. I do about 2 maybe three cycle yr but i don't out of hand with it. Everyone is different some ppl do have addictive behavior, but i never had a prob with anything like that. I have smoked in the pasted, quit for 8yrs. I have drank and i have had one drink in prob the last holiday. So i would say it really depends on the person and how strong you are. If you are dedicated to what you are doing and inform yourself. You have nothing to prove to anyone , just yourself.

Tweetso...the consensus is that steroids are generally used to gain strength and size that then transfers to a sense of respect and admiration from others? I mean, you get a really positive feeling for yourselves in that you've accomplished something, but, really is it that others see you as bigger and stronger and thus admire you more? Probably too simplistic, but Im trying to get some introspection going here....

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Originally Posted by PL456

so...the consensus is that steroids are generally used to gain strength and size that then transfers to a sense of respect and admiration from others? I mean, you get a really positive feeling for yourselves in that you've accomplished something, but, really is it that others see you as bigger and stronger and thus admire you more? Probably too simplistic, but Im trying to get some introspection going here....

Agreed 100% Look at the majority of the superheros of the past. Superman, the incredible hulk, Popeye, all muscle heads. I really think Superman juiced. I mean, stopping a bullet? Yea, not without A bombs in your system. Oh, anyways, ever since we were children, we've been subjected to muscular good looking guys as heros and as hunks. We look upon it with envy. Sounds to simplistic, but it's true. Many studies done about it. To look like no one else does around us. All us who've ever laughed at people with mohawks, blue hair, 45 piercings, etc..... we are in the same "free expression" boat. Just we choose to do it with 26 inch biceps. So don't laugh next time you see what you consider a "freak". They do it to stand out, we juice to stand out. Just different.
PL, are you a psychology major by chance?

TweetIn reading through this post, it's interesting to find that people want to make generalizations about users of AAS. I'm really not sure of what this will accomplish, because I think there is a more interesting way of approaching this topic: find out everyone's individual reasons.

My uncle was a semi-pro BB and he was fanatical about AAS and just about everything that he did... perhaps a manic type A personality guy. He taught me a tiny bit about AAS and told me NOT to do them... he thinking was that if someone is not going to COMPETE, then there is absolutely no point in taking them. His opinion.

After doing research online, I found that many of the things that my uncle was saying did not conform to the general consensus amoungst the BB boards. I was confused but still craved more knowledge.

At 31 years of age, I decided to do my first cycle based on many 'reasons':

1. I had been training for 14 years with very modest gains and progress. I am your classic ectomorphic hard-gainer, and then some.

2. I felt that I had done enough research and there was a community or support group online to help with any questions I may have.

3. At 6'2" 165 lbs, I felt that I was underweight for my height, no matter what my doctor told me.

4. The idea had crossed my mind for at least 5 years on and off.

5. I had the means to afford the AAS and the ancillaries and PCT.

6. I wanted to change the perception of myself and other's perception of me concerning my weight and physique. (ie: Whenever there was a family gathering or reunion, someone might say that I should eat more or something to that effect).

7. Deep down I'm probably somewhat egotistical, self concerned. I wanted the body that matched that ego.

8. After dropping to 130lbs in 1991 due to a car accident, I realized how fast the body can literally eat itself if you are sick or in some kind of non-mobile state. I really wanted to put on a good 20lbs of muscle over and above my homeostatic weight in order to have a buffer to circumvent such possible weight loss in the future.

I really respect PL456 based on his training advice in the weight training forums. In my mind, he is very intelligent and has an amazing work ethic. There is sincerity in his posts and I really think he is interested in what us 'users' have to say. Yet the notion of generalizing us, especially concerning ideas of suicide and insecurity is a pretty big leap in logic. Everyone has a story.

Beginning Stats:

6'2" 165lbs 20% bf.

Current Stats:

6'2" 180lbs 17% bf.

2 cycles under my belt.
Been off for over 4 months now and I feel great.

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Originally Posted by Striated

3. At 6'2" 165 lbs, I felt that I was underweight for my height, no matter what my doctor told me.

6. I wanted to change the perception of myself and other's perception of me concerning my weight and physique. (ie: Whenever there was a family gathering or reunion, someone might say that I should eat more or something to that effect).

Yet the notion of generalizing us, especially concerning ideas of suicide and insecurity is a pretty big leap in logic. Everyone has a story.

It's not a generalization at all. If PL is not a psychologist, then he and I are a lot alike. See, some guys study the effects of anabolic steroids, what they do for you're molecular composition, e=mc2, and all that good stuff. Me, I like to study WHY we do the things we do. Why do we take steroids? What makes us want to get bigger and intimidating? If I'm "generalizing", read your quote above. #3, you were unhappy with your weight. Therefore, unhappy with yourself. You can't tell me you said one day, "I don't weigh enough. Steroids are a safe and effective way for me to gain!" Effective, yes. Safe, ummmm, no. #6, you were sick and tired of everyone telling you to eat and gain weight. Understandably, that could be a bit undaunting. So you decided to make a change to yourself so everyone would look at you different. That's not a generalization on my part. I'd say it's pretty accurate. As for the suicide rates and depression, it's easy for us to look at a serial killer and say "What the phuque is going through that sick bastards mind to hack people up?" In the serial killers mind, he's the normal one and we're the outcasts. Same thing with depression and suicide. I've never been depressed enough to hold a gun to my head and get ready to pull the trigger. Nor have I ever suffered from severe depression or anxiety. So I think to myself, "How the phuque could someone hold a gun to their head and pull the trigger?" I don't know because I've never been there. It sounds like you've never been there either, so the thought of suicidal steroid users sound totally off the wall. But the statistics do show, people on steroids have a high rate of suicide and depression.
On a side note, I also applaud PL for his natural efforts. The avatar photo shows he's a big mofo naturally. A true dedicated person to his hobby.

TweetI really do not want to argue about this. My point was that I am an individual with a different set of life experiences. Laying out in plain English all the reasons I chose to do AAS was meant to show that it is a complex of many things everyone has a different story. I doubt that I even fully know the reasons for all of my decisions -- no one does. I would love to really know myself better, and this comes through maturity.

I am not a bouncer at a club that wants to intimidate other people and I was not 'picked on' in high school. I had a plethora of women at age 23 weighing only 160lbs... so it wasn't insecurity... no one has EVER said that I was insecure. And yes, everyone has different levels of insecurity.

It is silly to pidgeon hole people into groups and categories based on some kind of chemical choice/need/dependence. For example, there are 35 year old stock brokers that do coke... there are 13 year old girls that do coke. There is a world of difference between them.

The topic is interesting... I just wanted to provide some balance to it. And I do not wish to appear argumentative. Again, I respect all members and their views and opinions, as I've gained a world of knowledge on this site.

TweetLol, I think there are many different reasons why someone chooses to do aas. Some do it for admiration, intimidation, etc., but really.. come on now i think PL perhaps you what to read more into this than is necessary. I started it because i wanted to look better, feel better about my appearance, build more muscle than i could after i reached my natural potential etc. I was not looking for admiration or to intimidate anyone. Just my own personal preference. I could care less what anyone else thinks. I think the psychology of steroid use really depends on the person, their outlook on themselves, and their own personal reason as to why they are doing it. You could prob ask 100 aas users the same questions and get at least 50 different answers. If you want to narrow down the reasons ppl do it, well it will be a never ending study.

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Originally Posted by Striated

I really do not want to argue about this.

It's all good pally. No arguing at all.

TweetI will post because maybe a newbie perspective is in order. I am in my late 20's. I have the worlds slowest metabolism. I get it from my Grandmother. In Feb i was 5/11 and 260lbs. That 260 was the result of months and months of training. My trainer was shocked because he had me on a 1000-1200 cal NO carb and high protien diet for 2 months with 40 min of cardio a day and I lost ALMOST NO FAT. Before that..I was 270. I had pretty much no muscle on me at all. When I say that I am being serious.. I was the avg guy in strength. I sat down on the bench and lifted 120lbs and thought... My god I am a *****. I was very, very unhappy with myself. Even though I worked very hard on diet and training weight loss was slow and gradual. Hence my reason for starting my research on Juice.

Time... I did it to save time.. Could I have produced the body I wanted without Juice? Sure.. But I did not want to wait 5 years. My attitude on life is one that I could be killed on the way home in the car. Why Train for 5 years when I can save time with Steroids.. I know how that sounds but thats the truth and I am being honest.

Here I am in Aug. I just started my second cycle last week. I was off for 3 months. My first cycle started around late Feb or early march. In that time I dropped right around 50 lbs of body fat. yeah.. 50 lbs.. According to my trainer I put on at least 15 lbs of muscle. I was told I gained ALOT for the typical guy. Strength increases depend on the body part.. But everything doubled at a min. Chest shot up around 10 times strength. Arms where right around 15 inches at the Bi. Now at 17.5. I was 218lbs last week. Now that I started this second cycle I am up at 226 already. Maybe some water gain. I lost little between cycles. I did notice some strength loss and the cut up look dropped a couple notches.. But I held alot of it. Diabetes? GONE! High blood pressure? GONE its actually low at 120-130 over 50-55. My heart is really thanking me.. I used to run 180 BPM during cardio.. Now I have to run or my BPM will not go over 130.. If I stop the cardio I am back at 70 in just a few minutes.

Whats important to me is that my metabolism was up when I was off. I held right around 220lbs for the entire off time and I was working out less because I was so busy. Now that I have muscle on me my body uses more calories. Thats the hope of all this.. I will never compete. I will never be perfect. I dont want to be.. I just want to be comfortable with myself with minimal effort. Will I cycle again? I dont know. I dont plan on it but you never know..

Bottom line.. I was starting to get so heavy and out of shape that I was either looking at going down this road or having cosmetic surgery. I think this was the better path. I really believe that if you are not happy with yourself then you should fix the problem if you can... We are only here for a time period and if you will actually be happier with a different body.. Then have one made or make it yourself.

AZ

TweetI agree 100% AZ! You make yourself who you want to be. If it makes you happy and you have the means to change what you don't like, then hell do it!

TweetWell PL, I've never used AAS either. But I really really want to. I just need the cash and a trustworthy supplier. Why I want to is because I just want to improve myself. I've been lifting since I was 15yrs old I'm 24 now. I've made pretty good gains just using creatine and andro products. People ask me all the time if I'm on steroids. When I say no some people don't believe me, but who cares. At the university I can tell which guys are on it or not and most of them aren't any stronger or bigger than me. I often think to myself "those guys are spending all that money on AAS and they aren't any bigger than I am. I wonder how big can I get if I took AAS? " So you can say I want to take it just out of curiosity to see how big and lean I can get. I was a track and soccer athlete all through junior high and high school so I have no insecurities about myself except maybe my height, but AAS can't change that so that doesn't count. Since you look like a huge and lean guy I'm sure you're proabably as strong and as lean as some users are. So why not give AAS a try and see how much more you can improve. As Large said "there is a difference between use and abuse." Use it wisely and you'll be fine.