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    Thread: the case against bulking cycles....

    1. #1
      Governor's Avatar
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      Default the case against bulking cycles....



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      • the case against bulking cycles....
      taken from dial tone at elite. A very good read that I aree with 100%




      I see alot of people, often newbies, doing so-called bulking cycles followed almost immediately by a cutting cycle. On the bulking cycle they eat everything that doesn't move out of the way in an effort to gain as much mass as possible, only to lose a good portion of it in the post-cycle therapy and cutting cycle that follows. This is, in my opinion, an extremely inefficient use of time, effort, money and anabolic steroids. Let me explain why I think so.
      When you gain weight even following a relatively clean diet you can pretty much assume for every 4 lbs of muscle you gain you'll add 1 lb of fat. On an "eat everything I can" diet that ratio that ratio may increase to 4:2. This is before factoring in the additional water weight that certain aromatizing steroids (such as Dbol, Anadrol, Test, to a lesser extent Deca) cause. When you gain fat weight two things happen. The size of your fat cells increases AND the total number of fat cells increases. When you lose weight the size of your fat cells decreases but the total number stays the same. This is fact, not what I simply "think happens". This means when you come off that cutting cycle those extra fat cells you gained during that bulking cycle are still there dying to absorb every single gram of fat you take in. If you want to get rid of those extra fat cells you'll need to plan on liposuction. How many more fat cells do you think you'll end up with after 4-5 bulking cycles? Have you considered how hard it will get to stay lean in the future? You're setting yourself up for a dependancy on fat cutting drugs.
      A cutting cycle, even when done by the pros, WILL cost you muscle. Even with anabolic steroids it's very difficult to lose more than a lb a week without costing some muscle. In a recent MD Ahmad Haidar says in the offseason he's 250 lbs at 10% bodyfat. My math tells me at 225 lbs he'd be at 0% bodyfat. In actuality he probably competes around 3% bodyfat which would put him near 229, yet in the same article he says he competes at 218. What happened to the extra 10-12 lbs? It could be water but I think he's factoring in some muscle loss as well. What about Ronnie competing in the Mr. O at 260'ish when Chad says he could've weighed 285 if he wanted to? He's losing muscle there too, albeit intentionally.
      You regular Joes can rest assured that cutting cycle is costing you some of the hard earned muscle you gained during that last bulking cycle.
      Wouldn't you rather do two cycles where you can eat as much as you want rather than one feast cycle and one famine cycle? You'll build much more muscle on the former. If you gain 25 lbs on a bulking cycle offhand I'd estimate it's 12 lbs muscle, 6 lbs fat and 7 lbs of water. In the subsequent cutting cycle you may lose 2 lbs of muscle while trying to ditch that 13 lbs of fat & water. That means a net muscle gain of only 10 lbs. What if you could gain 12 lbs of muscle, 3 lbs of fat and little water? Would you take it? Here's how.
      I suggest doing a “Clean bulking” cycle instead. WTF is that? Simple...eat like you're 6-7 weeks out from a contest, only in unlimited amounts. Chicken/turkey breasts, steak, lean cuts of meat, rice, potatoes, pasta, breads. Only allow yourself to eat junkfood on the weekends. That extra fat in your diet isn't helping you build quality muscle and you're consuming enough carbohydrate to fuel your workouts and recovery. Now when this clean bulk cycle ends you don't have 10 lbs of extra fat to deal with. You can do post cycle recovery followed by your time off then go right into another clean bulk cycle, plus you don't have to waste money on weak anabolics like winny. You'll still have nearly all the muscle you gained first time around and you're about to double it on the next cycle. Not to mention it'll be easier to buy clothes because your weight won't fluctuate as much. Trust me on this...I've outgrown a 46-short suit which is the biggest you find off the rack in a short size.
      Save the cutting cycles for contest preparation. Maximize the effectiveness of your steroids by using them the way they were intended...to build huge muscles. If you're an ectomorph then the traditional bulk cycle is a good idea, but then an ectomorph shouldn't need a cutting cycle in the first place.

      With Bulk/Cut cycles you take 3 steps forward then 1 step back.
      With Clean Bulk cycles you simply take 2 steps forward.
      "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."
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    2. #2
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      "When you gain fat weight two things happen. The size of your fat cells increases AND the total number of fat cells increases. When you lose weight the size of your fat cells decreases but the total number stays the same. This is fact, not what I simply "think happens". This means when you come off that cutting cycle those extra fat cells you gained during that bulking cycle are still there dying to absorb every single gram of fat you take in. If you want to get rid of those extra fat cells you'll need to plan on liposuction. How many more fat cells do you think you'll end up with after 4-5 bulking cycles? Have you considered how hard it will get to stay lean in the future? You're setting yourself up for a dependancy on fat cutting drugs."




      I believe this to be the most important statement in the whole thing. When you get fat, your body MAKES new fat cells. Fat cells you cant get rid of. They only get smaller.



      and besides, I never want to be above 12% anyways. I ALWAYS want to look like a healthy bodybuiler.
      "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas."
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    3. #3
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      I seen this on Elite, Dialtone makes a very good point and I agree with everything in his post. If you look at my pics that I posted a little while back you can see how I looked in the off season after bulking up and not eating the right foods, sure I got big and put on a lot of weight, but I got myself up to about 18%bf, something I am trying to avoid this season. I am going to try and keep my BF as close to 10-12% as possible throughout this bulking period.

    4. #4
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      what pic?? i wanna see it bro........
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    5. #5
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      Originally posted by flexer01
      what pic?? i wanna see it bro........
      I'll try and find it and bump it back up for ya. I'd actually like to take a look at my fat ass again to keep me from eating like shit this holiday weekend.

    6. #6
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      Your body can get rid of fat cells. I haven't had a chance to read all the references but Gullicksen et al indicates that leptin can kill fat cells (1).

      I don't like all-out eat-McD's-3-times-a-day bulking cycles because of stretch marks. Some people think they're badges of pride or something, I think they're ugly.




      (1) Apoptosis. 2003 Aug;8(4):327-35.

      Leptin-induced adipose apoptosis: Implications for body weight regulation.

      Gullicksen PS, Della-Fera MA, Baile CA.
      nox@cyber-rights.net

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    7. #7
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      I tend to agree. I question the use of dextrose as a post workout recovery drink. I really pack on the fat using dextrose after a workout.

    8. #8
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      It would never occur to me to eat tons of junk food even while bulking. Clean all the way. Well, almost all the way.... we all have our vices when it comes to food.

    9. #9
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      Great post, I agree all the way. -crombie09

    10. #10
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      I'm still pretty new to this game but believe this to be 100% true. I 've never agreed that eating 5000 and some calories just to put weight on in a cycle to be a good thing. At least for me. I'd rather put on less total poundage after a cycle and have it be quality and keepable weight than say I put on thirty pounds but now I have to shed fifteen pounds of fat to look good. I don't plan on ever using drugs to cut weight.
      Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups







    11. #11
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      Originally posted by Governor
      "When you gain fat weight two things happen. The size of your fat cells increases AND the total number of fat cells increases. When you lose weight the size of your fat cells decreases but the total number stays the same. This is fact, not what I simply "think happens". This means when you come off that cutting cycle those extra fat cells you gained during that bulking cycle are still there dying to absorb every single gram of fat you take in. If you want to get rid of those extra fat cells you'll need to plan on liposuction. How many more fat cells do you think you'll end up with after 4-5 bulking cycles? Have you considered how hard it will get to stay lean in the future? You're setting yourself up for a dependancy on fat cutting drugs."




      I believe this to be the most important statement in the whole thing. When you get fat, your body MAKES new fat cells. Fat cells you cant get rid of. They only get smaller.



      and besides, I never want to be above 12% anyways. I ALWAYS want to look like a healthy bodybuiler.
      The article is good and he makes valid points but the body produces more adipose cells when you are extremely fat for a long time period. Your not going to make a ton of new fat cells by bulking up to 17% bf for 20 weeks or so. Not the best way to do things but I think it may be a bit overstated.

      I agree with the article, but the amount of fat you gain is dictated by your caloric intake. Not where those cals come from. I can honestly say I have met 1 person in my lifetime who eats cleaner than I. Yet I still gain fat just fine, because I eat over my maintanance calories in order to make sure I'm gaining as much as possible. Eating clean is better than eating junk, and it carries with it lots of health benefits. But eating clean doesnt guarentee a lower bodyfat, there are lots of other things that effect that.
      "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
      Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
      alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
      Calvin Collidge (1872-1933)
      30th U.S. President

      johnsonpride81@cyber-rights.com

    12. #12
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      Sounds good on paper but it boils down to genetics. Some can eat dairyqueen and it all goes to the right places, some can eat bean sprouts and still get fat. The logic is there but this is an art not a science so don't fall in love with any one idea.

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      so what do you think would happen if you got lipo and then do a clean bulk cycle?youwont gain fat where you got the lipo right?so if you get say your stomach lipo.no fat will gather there?so your hips get fat?
      I don't know you.But I know your kind.

    14. #14
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      Lipo cant get rid of ALL fat cells. As stated Genetics will still be the determining factor.
      "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
      Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
      alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
      Calvin Collidge (1872-1933)
      30th U.S. President

      johnsonpride81@cyber-rights.com

    15. #15
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      very good read, I plan on doing my next cycle with a clean diet.

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