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Originally Posted by animal87

I really like armoisin over adex. 12.5 mg on cycle if needed and 25mg on pct. I use it in heavy and long cycles. It has a steriod like property of its own thats helps keep gains.

As for hair loss I wish my hair would fall out lol.

Haha dont say that! im trying to maintain my luscious blond lions mane. (okay its a little thinner then a lions mane but close) and im already starting to get a natural Mohawk and hair is everywhere. so hairloss is a strong concern for me lol

And cool thats what ill run my armoisin at.

Tweetthe best i have come up with is daily use of minoxidil and once a week of nizoral shampoo (prescription). i just went to my doc and said i needed something to better combat dandruff can you hook it up with the nizoral, and that was it. this will assist if your dht levels are high. make sure you know which compounds to stay away from if your worried about mpb. all in all if you truly care about your hair then steroids will cause you despair.

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Originally Posted by sensitivenips

the best i have come up with is daily use of minoxidil and once a week of nizoral shampoo (prescription). i just went to my doc and said i needed something to better combat dandruff can you hook it up with the nizoral, and that was it. this will assist if your dht levels are high. make sure you know which compounds to stay away from if your worried about mpb. all in all if you truly care about your hair then steroids will cause you despair.

From what i understand Deca is fairly mild on your hairline and Deca doesn't even Stimulate DHT so really my main concern was with the test.

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Originally Posted by mikeyg51

i love hcg with any cycle i run, especially deca...However, one thing to consider with deca (and tren for that matter) is Caber or even Pramipexole...But hcg would be highly advised with something as suppressive as Nandrolone...And from what I have read the PCT route should weigh more on Clomid/Torem than Nolva...this is something I have seen lately, how Tren and Deca cycles don't do as well with Nolva as a pct...anyone else read that?

You're definitely right about clomid/torem. From my understanding, nolva has shown to increase expression of the PR. Since deca is a progesterone, this could potentially lead to more problems during pct such as prolactin related gyno, especially since deca stays in your system for so long. I always recommend clomid or perhaps torem after a cycle with the inclusion of 19nor's.

TweetOkay, im changing the subject here, But im flirting with the idea of running a Tren cycle instead since i cant stop the hair loss anyways...But this is what i was thinking, whats your opinions? Thanks i appreciate the opinions. and im going for a lean a bulk here that will allow me to keep most of my gains.

Sust 250: 187.5mg EOD: Week 1-12---656.25mg a week
Tren A 100: 100mg EOD: Week 1-12---350mg a week (Im also probably gonna have some NPP on hand in case the Tren gets too rough i can switch in NPP instead)
T-Bol: 40mg ED: Week 1-6

Aromasin on hand
Caber on hand

For HCG I would start it 2 weeks before my PCT. 1500IU`s 3x a week, Then First week of PCT 1500IU`s 2x a week

PCT will have
Clomid 100mg ED week1-2, then 50mg ED week3-5
Aromasin 25mg ED week 1-5

TweetHave you ever considered running test lower than your tren? It's a sure way to keep the tren sides at bay which is great for assessing your tolerance to tren. The more you increase test, the more sides will start surfacing. I found that it wasn't necessary to run test very high with tren anyway since tren is 5x more anabolic. Just some food for thought. I also found that Tbol at 60mg was the sweet spot. Good luck

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Originally Posted by Fullback40

Okay, im changing the subject here, But im flirting with the idea of running a Tren cycle instead since i cant stop the hair loss anyways...But this is what i was thinking, whats your opinions? Thanks i appreciate the opinions. and im going for a lean a bulk here that will allow me to keep most of my gains.

Sust 250: 187.5mg EOD: Week 1-12---656.25mg a week
Tren A 100: 100mg EOD: Week 1-12---350mg a week (Im also probably gonna have some NPP on hand in case the Tren gets too rough i can switch in NPP instead)
T-Bol: 40mg ED: Week 1-6

Aromasin on hand
Caber on hand

For HCG I would start it 2 weeks before my PCT. 1500IU`s 3x a week, Then First week of PCT 1500IU`s 2x a week

PCT will have
Clomid 100mg ED week1-2, then 50mg ED week3-5
Aromasin 25mg ED week 1-5

Are you planning on using the caber and aromasin proactively against your E2 and prolactin/progesterone levels? Or waiting until side affects become too much? If not Id start that caber at .5mg 2x a week. The aromasin looks to be a usual starting point of 20-25mg ED. Of course bloods are only way to confirm both protocols are effective.

Never been a fan of using HCG at the end of the cycle only. Its another proactive choice but it prevents and/or slows the rate of atrophy significantly. So then when you are ready for PCT, there isn't a retroactive start at full atrophy, which WILL take longer to recover. I follow a 250 IU twice a week protocol (even can be mixed in the same syringe as your gear) through out the entire cycle, 4 days out from PCT. Not much more is needed Imo. You do want to be careful of higher doses of HCG for prolonged periods as it will cause intratesticular E2 problems that an AI WILL NOT solve. You will have your work cut out for you from there.

Again I'm not a fan of any AI in a PCT protocol. If we've done our job on cycle and had bloods to confirm the AI dosage is correct, then you should be ok. Id add nolva in conjunction to the clomid for PCT for better chances of full recovery. If using 5 weeks a 40/20/20/20/20 protocol would suffice.

Tweet^^^ I'm right on board with everything you said! I have been told though that nolva doesn't go well with tren and deca....have you ever had any problems with that?? I snatched up plenty of Clomid, the obvious staple, and then some Torem because of what I read about nolva with deca/tren....

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Originally Posted by mikeyg51

^^^ I'm right on board with everything you said! I have been told though that nolva doesn't go well with tren and deca....have you ever had any problems with that?? I snatched up plenty of Clomid, the obvious staple, and then some Torem because of what I read about nolva with deca/tren....

I've never encountered problems with it myself. As well as my research in the matter highly regards nolva as a staple in PCT protocols.


Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

TweetSounds like a good plan but I too agree with lowering the test a bit. I would also run Tren Ed. I did this last time and literally had no sides as I believe my blood levels were consistent

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Originally Posted by Maintenance Man

I've never encountered problems with it myself. As well as my research in the matter highly regards nolva as a staple in PCT protocols.


Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

Damn nice explanation brother...now that makes sense, i haven't had it broken down for me like that before, thanks man

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Originally Posted by mikeyg51

Damn nice explanation brother...now that makes sense, i haven't had it broken down for me like that before, thanks man

You're welcome dude. I'm glad I could help

TweetThanks man i really appreciate the info, and i moved the subject to its own thread also, sorry, but yeah i am going to run HCG throughout at 500IU`s 1x week. and the caber has been showing some nasty long term sides i have seen a little bit about, and where i get it, it is very expensive so i was just gonna run it in pct or if it was needed, and for the AI i was planning on running it All the way through as well. So you definitely strengthened my belief that i should run HCG and AI throughout the cycle instead.