Cycle Advice

[Morgan]

TweetGot this off of AR by BASK8KACE - a good read for newbies like me

Cycle advice (comments on first cycles, doses, eating, etc.)
Over the last few months, I've received several PM from people asking me about initial cycles and doses. Several of the PM's started out with "So-and-so suggested I contact you/read your posts about doses..." So, I want to thank the AR members who pointed these people in my direction. I take it as a vote of confidence from you, and I sincerely appreciate it.

Today I received another such PM, so I'm going to post my response here and hopefully get some more eyes on the subject and spark a discussion. Here's an edited version of the response:

Regarding your cycle:
Pimoteston (testosterone enanthate) 250mg every week
Equipoise 200mg every week:

A weekly dose of 250mg of Primoteston (testosterone enanthate) combined with 200mg of equipoise can yield 15 lbs gain of solid muscle. The higher doses (i.e. 400mg) will possibly give you faster gains, but a lot of the weight gain could be contributed to water retention--varies from person to person. If you read my other posts, you'll find that from chatting/reading/discussing, I've found that 400mg per week of testosterone (enan or cyp) tends to yeild 20-24 lbs in 10-12 weeks, while 250mgs per week tends to yield 15-20lbs in 10-12 weeks.

It's important that you understand the following:

1. Many newbie cyclers (no matter what AS [anabolic steroids] they take) make the mistake of not eating well on their first cycle. After the disappointing cycle, they blame the doses for the lack of growth. However, a low-dose cycle will work wonders ONLY IF you learn to be strict about your eating. You have to eat tons of protein--1.5-2 grams for every pound of your current body weight, which means you can approach your protein/calorie intake two ways:

a. (The hard way) Keep weighing yourself and adjusting your protein/calorie intake every few days.

b. (The better way) Add 15 lbs to your current body weight. Make this number your goal weight at the end of the cycle. Eat protein and calories the whole way through your cycle as if you were already this weight. That way, you neither have to re-adjust your protein/calories nor your general cooking/eating routine.

2. The cycle that you listed will make you grow reasonably. But, I'm telling you right now, if you are not eating, resting and sleeping correctly, then a low dose cycle WILL NOT give you what you want. You must be VERY strict on a low dose cycle--completely disciplined. If you're not disciplined, then don't blame your lack of growth on the low-dose.

3. You asked about time of effects of your listed cycle:

a. Due to testosterone, the first effect you will probably experience is a sharp increase in your sex drive (at the very least you will begin experiencing erections during times you normally wouldn't) within 2 - 3 weeks.

b. Strength will increase from the test within the first 3-4 weeks.

c. Equipoise will kick in around week 5-6. You'll notice increased pump, increased appetite, increased vascularity, POSSIBLE muscle hardness and POSSIBLE increased strength.

Every person reacts differently to AS, so take note of all that you're body does and feels during your first cycle and use it to your advantage in your next cycles.

4. The main idea behind low-dose cycling during initial cycles is to allow you to see how your body reacts to a given AS. If your body responds well at lower doses, then you're set--You've learned to use the lowest amount possible to get your body growing thick muscle quickly.

If you're in this for the long haul (which may happen since technically AS are considered addictive), then I recommend that people use their first 1 or 2 cycles to experiment and to find out how they react to certain combinations and doses of AS (with a doctor's supervision--Please see my disclaimer/note at the end of this post).

If you're out for VERY fast growth and you don't have the patience, time, cash or whatever to use initial low doses, then you're always welcome to jump into 400mg per week of this and 500mg per week of that--but I don't recommend it, because when it comes to my health, I am completely type-A. Since AS acts so differently from person to person, I'd rather go slower and play it "safer."

5. You asked about the gains or 400mg per week versus 200mg per week of testosterone. No, the gains of 400mg per week do not automatically guarantee twice as much muscle as 200mg per week. AS doses not work like that. If it did, there would be far more men and women walking around showing off mountains of muscle. Search through my posts on low doses and you'll find a clear (simplified) explanation of how doses of long-lasting testosterone esters build up in the system to produce effects.

6. I've addressed this in other posts, but I'll say it again here:

You said, "I can deal with smaller gains, but I can't deal with the fact that I won't see any gains at all. "Here's my answer to that:

Yes you will grow on low doses. You have to consider who is saying low-doses won't make you grow. You're dealing with a group of people who are already growing faster than normal. Many of these people want to GROW EXTREMELY FAST--faster than fast (I'm focusing on mainly the recreational users who never really plan to compete). Anyone in this group who is growing slower than "super fast” is considered to be "NOT GROWING." But, Anyone who puts any AS in their body above the most minimal therapeutic amount is going to grow faster than the average Joe (or Sue) who is not using steroids. Furthermore, if you are blessed with good genetics, then low-doses of AS will make you grow like a person taking possibly twice the amount.

Wouldn't you rather learn that your body could grow fast off 200-300mg of testosterone, rather than jumping into 500-600mg while never knowing that for your first few cycles you would have still gained those 15-20 lbs. for less money and POSSIBLY less health risk?

If you have the patience, time and money, I suggest starting with a low dose cycle. While on low doses, you will grow, and you will have an opportunity to focus on FINE TUNING your diet. Wouldn't it suck to throw away larger doses on a first cycle and not have your diet together? (Actually, you have no business doing a cycle if you aren't already eating, sleeping and working out correctly--but many people jump in anyway, as I've said before).

Best of luck on your fist cycle. Welcome to the dark side

[Massive1]

TweetI'm not a newbie, but Idon't like it. Any of it. Some things in there are better said then not said but it's BS IMO.

[Morgan]

TweetMassive1 - as I'm considering a first cycle, what's the beef specifically? Did you go a lot higher on your first? I'd appreciate your input on this one. Thanks

[Massive1]

TweetMy first cycle i went high dose...but the stuff I used was generic and I ididn't know the mg/ml. That's my fault, this was yrs ago when it wasn't like it is now. I gained tremendously and kept probably 90%. On my first cycle I actually didn't like being on the drug.

Sorry Morgan...a low dose regimine is playing it safe, that's good advice.

[prolangtum]

Tweet250mg of Testerone is more than you produce naturally, but it has been shown consitently the advantages of 100mg ew to 300mg ew, to 600mg ew. 600mg yields three times as much gains as 300mg, and we all know 100mg wont do jack. This is all backed by studies, i will find them if you like. And im sorry 200mg of EQ is a complete waist. As long as your "in the know" I would go with 400mg of test ethanate, and 400mg of EQ. This is still a very moderate cycle compared to many, myself included. You know the old saying, you cant swim fast if you only have one foot in the water. Im sorry, 400mg will not make you hold a ton of water. That guys had some good points, but, he almost seems to tenative. Although, #1 is so so true. I see guys taking a gram a week, yet have no idea how many cals they take in, think they can train all day, and then go out and do 12 oz curls 5 nights a week. They wonder why they are stuck at 170 lbs.

[jack hust]

Tweetits a good post but i think cycles are trial and error for everyone untill they figure there bodys reaction to aas and to the diet needs

[Morgan]

TweetThanks for the replies. I'm thinking about 400 mg Test Enanthate and 400 mg EQ. I'll repeat here and say that I gain real easy and can wait for the test to kick in. I don't want to front load with Dbol really. Will run ldex throughout with clomid post. In general, I have a pretty high tolarance to anything I put in my body, so I wasn't sure if a low dose first time around would be worth it.