psychology of steroid use

[PL456]

Ok..Ill try again, against my better judgement.

My questions are, at what point did you guys decide to try juice and what are the goals of your use? I mean, for me, Ive hit plateaus and all like everyone has, but Ive changed my training approaches after doing alot of study and trial and error, and have kept progressing. I mean, 99.9% of guys that I know that use juice:

A) Arent strong when theyre "on", maybe a little bump in strength that is noticeable in terms of how quickly they changed
B) gained a modest amount of muscle mass that could easily be achieved after several years of training
C) Quickly return to their original size/strength when they come off, only to have everybody in the gym knowing the gains they had where obviously done with juice.
D) Some end up with hairloss and fertility and weird medical sides years later. I just had one 31 yr-old guy come up to me in the gym the other day, worried to death about his "boys" not working...and he's been off for a couple years.

I mean, do yall get or want the pro BB "look" and tremendous strength? I know that if I ever were to use, knowing me, Id want to weigh 400lbs and bench the whole gym..LOL--thus, I will never use. Whats the goal of your program of juice use?

Now, I realize that most users dont do the research and full program like some do here at FG, but, I just dont see the risks involved outweighing the benefits..unless youre looking to fully commit and make it your profession.

[angryoldman]

Sure, I'll take the bait and be the first to answer. I was an education major, and took 4 years of psychology. I can enjoy a good phylosophical conversation. So let me start:
Steroids are definitly a psychological "crutch" , if you will. Most people start taking steroids as a way to compensate for a lack several things. One may be self confidence. If I'm bigger, people will like me. Maybe some can't fight their way out of a paper bag, so they say if I'm bigger people won't pick on me. Obviously it's not for health benefits, since there's nothing really healthy about it. Shit, Pro Bodybuilders bring kidney Dialysis machines on tour with them. That's not too phuquing healthy!
It's like the old saying that is 99.9% accurate- A good % of police officers were geeks in school who were picked on. Now it's a way for them to feel inferior. It's a compensatory job. The more power you have, the better you feel. I have been here for a few months now, I can easily see the people here who are taking steroids for the wrong reasons.
**Please, don't take my words as someone who feels they are better than anyone else here, because I don't feel that way at all. I feel I am stating an obvious observation**
I'm just saying there are people here who feel that if they don't take juice, no one will like them. And some people are willing to put their life on the line just for social acceptance. It's a horrible thing. Then again, some people do it for an emotional crutch. Just like going out and spending $3000 on a new suit. It makes YOU feel better, so you do it. You had a bad life, so go spend $3000 on juice and feel better. My reason for steroids was envy in a way. My very first job out of high school was a factory job to pay for my college at nights. One of the guys in the factory was a fork lift driver. He was a younger guy at about 25, but a BIG MO FO. Now, I used to wrestle in high school, and had one of those physiques that if I took my shirt off, I looked damn good, but with it on, no one knew I worked out. I was slender but defined. So I made friends with this guy, and soon we discussed working out. A few months went by, and me and this guy started to work out together. (no all you fags, this isn't turning into a homo story) So this guy asked me if I ever considered any 'roids. Sure, I always "considered" it, but never really knew the side effects or anything. I just thought you take a needle, a few pills, sit back, and get big. He actually gave me my first crash course in juicing. Told me what I needed to do, how to work out, what to eat, etc.... So my VERY FIRST cycle was a deca only cycle in 1990. Yellow tops Thankfully, no damage was done to my libido. Second cycle was cyp and dbol, and on and on and on. I think my decision to use steroids was based more on curiosity. I saw how big this guy was, and wanted to know If I could get the same size. Yea, I know I'm hypocritical by telling people now not to juice until they're in their mid to late 20's, but if I knew then what I know now, I would have waited. I still think my shoulder surgery was attributed to my steroid use. I pushed to damn hard on myself. But hey, we live and learn. I kept a good bit of my mass after stopping roids for surgery, but that was because I still worked out, even at the lightest of weights. Obviously, I would LOVE to look like a Dorian Yates or a white Lee Haney or Flex Wheeler, but my dedication, mental well being, or $$$ isn't there that would allow me. I love the look at just being a fucking muscular freak of nature!

[FUZO]

I'M SURE THAT EXPLAINED IT THIS TIME.LOL

[angryoldman]

I'M SURE THAT EXPLAINED IT THIS TIME.LOL

Times change. Stories change

[angryoldman]

Damn, just me and Crank are the only honest ones here? Come on now. Most of y'all post pictures of yourselves in the photos forum so we can see your external features. Let's get to know your internals as well. Here, I'll start:
Hi, my name's Steve, and I'm an alcoholic.
No, sorry, wrong place

[PL456]

great replies, guys--you gave some good insights, it would be nice to have others provide input. to be totally honest, of course I am interested in the stuff and what it can do or i wouldnt be here, but as stated, I personally think the cons outweigh the pro's, but to each his own. i decided to start this thread because again, in all honesty, it's hard to really sit down across from somebody, even a good friend, and get deep with the how's and why's they decided to get into the juice game. in this regard, the internet's relative anonymity is good for discussions as these.

now, one more step, question 1:would you guys agree that for an individual to take things as far as some people take them (i.e., the Pros that take dialysis machines with them on tour) is out of control and is obsessive and self-destructive?? And question 2:is there a lure there to take things just a little bit higher and higher with each successive gain??

A friend of mine got on some fina a few mos ago..He's a bench specialist and competes alot. Initially he couldnt get 315 for 4-5 reps, after about 3 weeks was repping 10 reps out without a prob and eventually got 450 with a pause. He told me it was like going from a Honda to a souped up Mustang GT....there's gotta be a lure there to go more and more..?

[angryoldman]

now, one more step, question 1:would you guys agree that for an individual to take things as far as some people take them (i.e., the Pros that take dialysis machines with them on tour) is out of control and is obsessive and self-destructive?? And question 2:is there a lure there to take things just a little bit higher and higher with each successive gain??

A friend of mine got on some fina a few mos ago..He's a bench specialist and competes alot. Initially he couldnt get 315 for 4-5 reps, after about 3 weeks was repping 10 reps out without a prob and eventually got 450 with a pause. He told me it was like going from a Honda to a souped up Mustang GT....there's gotta be a lure there to go more and more..?

Alright, too many F'n questions now
I can tend to get long winded on my answers as many of my friends tell me, so I'll try to keep it short. But it will probably turn out long anyways. So here we go:
First off, as far as people take things, I agree 110%. Back up a minute: First off, why do people take steroids? As I stated before, to change an identity they're not happy with, so people will like them, intimidation, etc.....Now, when you change an identity, are you happy? studies prove conclusively in most cases, NO. Homosexuals have a high rate of alcoholism and suicide. Why? Socially unacceptable and a fear of not being liked for what they are. Do steroid users have a high rate of suicide? Believe it or not, yes. A 1994 independent study by Pope and Katz tested 88 random anabolic steroid users. Out of 88, 23% (21) were manic depressive. In 1990, a study done on high school football players found 22% suffered major depression. fact is, like it or not, suicide rates are high among steroid users. And there is a link between depression and steroid use. Not to say alcoholics aren't as high, but I don't know any statistics off hand. Now, where was I going with this? When you're depressed, how far is too far to take something? Suicide is the ultimate limit people take things, but for bodybuilders, dialysis machines are just part of the job. No disrespect meant to anyone, but I know over the years fellow FG brothers lost their lives to recreational drug use. Why do you think there's a correlation between AS and recreational drugs? You can figure it out. Read everything I wrote above. As for your second question, "is there a lure there to take things just a little bit higher and higher with each successive gain??" Who was the first person to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean? Charles Lindbergh. Who was the second? I dunno.
Who was the first person to walk on the moon? Neil Armstrong
Who was the second? I dunno.
What's the lure? Be the first guy in the gym to bench 500lbs. Everyone looks up to you like an icon. People talk to you and ask questions. "Hey, you're the guy who benches 500lbs! What should I do to get my bench up? What should I eat? etc...."
As for wanting to do more and more, again, it has to do with the attention factor. Your buddy who benches competitively; was he popular in high school? Was he considered a "ladies man" in high school? Now that he's juicing, probably a lot bigger, stronger, does he get more attention now at the gym? Does he get more attention now at the power lifting matches? Of course. Attention is the ultimate reward. You know the EASIEST way to ruin a steroid users day? Ask him/her if they are still working out. And tell them they look like thy've lost some weight. :p I bet there's a good 10% of people on the FG boards that would be manic depressive and suicidal if you said that to them. There's a few great articles written by a Doctor, if I can remember his name. Very smart man named Mark Ochpini I think?? I'll look through my old human psych. books and see if I can spell his name correctly, then post some articles.
See, I told you I would get long winded.

[FUZO]

OK WHEN I WAS BORN.LOL

[angryoldman]

I was close. Dr Mark Occhipinti is his name.

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/STEROIDS.HTM

As for Pros and cons, and which outweighs which, only you can decide that. 99% of us here on gear probably feel the pros are increased strength, looking good, being more popular, intimidation, a better sense of well being. The cons are.....well......death, illness, infection. Shit, any of us can get killed walking across the street. I can get an infection by stepping on a piece of broken glass. To me, the Pros definately outweigh the cons.

[BM]

I think what the poster is not taking into consideration is that there is a big difference between steroid use and abuse. And when used in moderation I don't see where the negatives outweigh the positives. I see it the other way around. I personally started using because I knew I could obtain goals that I could not have with out AAS. Would I look as good as I do today if I had not done 7 cycles in the past 5-7 years. Hell no. If done proprerly you won't lose everything you gained. Actually very little. Using AAS is really no different than getting a boob job, liposuction, gastric bypass surgey, or anything else along those lines. Your just using an ouside source to help obtain your personal goals. Who cares what the reason one has set those goals for themselves is. I personally like to be intimidating to other guys and know that when my fiancee looks at me she likes what she sees. Egotisical, yes but then again who cares.

[PL456]

very interesting replies guys. I can definitely see the correlation between the obsessive-type steroid user and alcoholic, or any sort of maladaptive and potentially self-destructive behavior, with having an underlying psychological problem. It doesnt suprise me at all that the percentages are as high as they are in terms of manic-depression. It appears these types are attempting to compensate for a peceived deficit area--a hole that they are trying to fill. Its just interesting to me, as a "people watcher", as to the motivation for certain behaviors and why people do the things they do. I tend to be of the behaviorist mindset--that is, people do things because they are reinforced positively or negatively to do so.

[Campeon Del Mundo]

i trained naturally for many years and never gained a pound...i cant gain without steroids..

[Bigdan322]

Re: psychology of steroid use

Everyone is on there own fitness journey some go down the road that takes them to the use of steroids wether its for good reasons or bad you can't blame them, after all its human nature to try and improve ones self. I personally will admit that insecurity is the only "bad" reason i started using steroids. I wanted very badly to have that perfect physique. I was always athletic as a kid but very skinny, very soft spoken and insecure, i graduated high school at 6'1 and 165lbs. to make a long boring story short i believe that weight training and the physique i developed with the help of steroids has changed my life for the better, i am confident now in part because of the respect i get from people for my physique, my outgoing attitude and the confidence that i exude. As far as guys on this stuff being weak thats not true i am very strong, even when i am not "juicing", also i tend to keep a good deal of the muscle that i build while on a cycle. I have not experienced side effects to the degree you had discussed either, mainly due to the fact that i do this stuff the right way, and that is the key i believe, being educated on the proper use of AAS will keep you healthy and allow you to plan a scientific and safe approach to taking steroids that will give you the gains you want without suffering the harsh side effects that can happen if you do not take the necassary precautions. Everything in moderation, PCT at the end of your cycle, and regular check ups from your doc. Learn about these compounds and how to safely use them before you put them in your body and you can have a good experience with the use of steroids.

[PL456]

Re: psychology of steroid use

what percentage of steroid users, do you guys believe in your experience, do them the "right" way? I would guess-stimate about 30%. Just MO and in my experience.

[angryoldman]

Re: psychology of steroid use

what percentage of steroid users, do you guys believe in your experience, do them the "right" way? I would guess-stimate about 30%. Just MO and in my experience.

I guess the question is "What's the right way?" Ask a medical professional, and there is no right way. Ask a 21 year old kid on them and he thinks he knows everything there is to know about steroids, medical degrees, and everything else. Someone said it a few days ago on here. Most advice is regurgitated on here over the years. Look on these boards here. I would say a good %, probably over 80% take them the knowlegeable way. That means, on and off cycles, not 1 on cycle for 50 weeks. PCT, CCT, clean syringes, listening their bodies warnings and signs, not working through joint pain, etc.....I would really go on a limb here and say the only "not right" way to take them are bodybuilder style. 20cc's a week, with about 50 orals a week. That's not healthy. A glass of wine a day is healthy, not a bottle a day . I'm not a qualified health professional. So for me to say, "What's the right way and wrong way", I guess it depends on who you are.