Melatonin??

[grdfreak]

Tweetwhat do you guys think about taking melatonin after a cycle , when all you do is sleep. Ive heard your melatonin gets messed up when on cycle because of hypogonadism.

[gunz]

TweetI usually pop 2-3 mg of Melatonin on Sundays to help me get to sleep earlier both on and off cycle.

I've never noticed a sleep problem off cycle, I'm more likely to have problems falling asleep while on a cycle.

[scottyspiked]

Tweethey grd freak... you sleep all the time when you are on a cycle or off? I am on my first cycle and am very run down and tired as hell!!! Tried melatonin but does do anything at all for me.

[NeverSatisfied]

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Originally posted by grdfreak
what do you guys think about taking melatonin after a cycle , when all you do is sleep. Ive heard your melatonin gets messed up when on cycle because of hypogonadism.

where did u hear it gets messed up because of hypogonadism?
if it was an article, could u post it? i'm interested

[Cordoba]

TweetI take melatonin to help me sleep and i feel it works but only for the first 4 hours of sleep or so, maybe poping another one when i wake up would be a good idea. I am intrested in seeing that article also.

[grdfreak]

TweetEur J Endocrinol 1997 Jul;137(1):48-52

Melatonin concentration before and during testosterone replacement in primary hypogonadic men.

Rajmil O, Puig-Domingo M, Tortosa F, Viader M, Garcia Patterson A, Schwarzstein D, de Leiva A.

Servei d'Andrologia, Fundacio Puigvert, Barcelona, Spain.

OBJECTIVE: To study circadian levels of melatonin in primary hypogonadic adult men before and after testosterone treatment. DESIGN AND METHODS: Circadian serum melatonin profiles were studied in six men with primary hypogonadism before and during testosterone substitution and compared with an age-matched control group (n = 6). RESULTS: Hypogonadal patients had higher plasma melatonin concentrations than the control group during day time (34.2 +/- 8.8 compared with 5.4 +/- 0.5 ng/l, means +/- SD; P < 0.005) and night-time (74.8 +/- 34.5 compared with 30.8 +/- 3.2 ng/l). A 3 months course of testosterone replacement treatment in the hypogonadal group was followed by a diminution of the amplified melatonin circadian rhythm, with lower mean values both during the day (34.2.8 +/- 8 compared with 12.7 +/- 2.45 ng/l, P < 0.001) and at night (74.8 +/- 34.5 compared with 41.5 +/- 13.5 ng/l, P < 0.01), and a decrease in the total area under the curve (958 +/- 318 compared with 475.5 +/- 222.9, P = 0.046). There was a significant negative correlation between melatonin (r = -0.69) and testosterone concentrations. CONCLUSIONS: These data indicate that diminished testosterone in male primary hypogonadism is associated with enhanced plasma levels of melatonin, and that testosterone substitution treatment induces a deamplification of the circadian rhythm of melatonin values in humans.

PMID: 9242201 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


And you can see here where TE replacement normalized melatonin levels.


Luboshitzky R, Wagner O, Lavi S, Herer P, Lavie P.

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1997 Oct;47(4):463-9

Abnormal melatonin secretion in hypogonadal men: the effect of testosterone treatment.

Endocrine Institute, Haemek Medical Center, Afula, Israel.

OBJECTIVE: We have recently demonstrated that GnRH deficient male patients have increased nocturnal melatonin secretion, whereas hypergonadotrophic hypogonadal males have decreased melatonin levels. We were interested in determining whether testosterone (T) treatment (when T levels were well matched with pubertal control values) has an effect on melatonin secretory profiles in these patients. DESIGN: Prospective, controlled. SUBJECTS: Six male patients with idiopathic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism (IGD), six males with hypergonadotrophic hypogonadism due to Klinefelter's syndrome (KS) and seven controls. Patients were examined before and during the administration of 250 mg testosterone enanthate/month for four months. MEASUREMENTS: Serum samples for melatonin levels were obtained every 15 minutes from 1990 to 0700 h in a controlled light-dark environment. The results of FSH, LH, T and oestradiol (E2) (determined at hourly intervals) and melatonin profiles, were compared with the pre-treatment values in each group, and with values obtained in the control group. RESULTS: All 12 patients had low pre-treatment T levels (1.4 +/- 0.7 in IGD and 2.0 +/- 0.4 in KS vs. 19.8 +/- 2.3 nmol/l in controls) and attained normal levels after four months of T treatment (19.5 +/- 7 in IGD and 22.7 +/- 3.8 nmol/l in KS). Serum LH, FSH and E2 levels (11 +/- 4 IU/l, 24 +/- 10 IU/l and 113 +/- 12 pmol/l, respectively) were still elevated in KS during T treatment as compared with values in controls (2 +/- 1 IU/l, 2 +/- 1 IU/l and 67 +/- 4 pmol/l, respectively). In IGD, serum LH (0.12 +/- 0.1 IU/l) and FSH (0.16 +/- 0.2 IU/l) levels during T treatment were suppressed. Pretreatment melatonin levels in IGD were greater than those in age-matched pubertal controls while in KS, melatonin levels were lower than values in controls. Melatonin levels were equal in all 12 hypogonadal patients and controls when T levels were well matched. Mean (+/- SD) dark-time melatonin levels decreased from 286 +/- 18 to 157 +/- 26 pmol/l in IGD and increased from 92 +/- 19 to 183 +/- 48 pmol/l in KS (vs 178 +/- 59 pmol/l in controls). The integrated melatonin values decreased in IGD (from 184 +/- 14 to 102 +/- 21 pmol/min. 1 x 10(3)) and increased in KS (from 64 +/- 13 to 123 +/- 40, vs. 116 +/- 39 pmol/min. 1 x 10(3) in controls). No correlations were found between melatonin and LH, FSH or E2 levels. CONCLUSIONS: These data indicate that male patients with GnRH deficiency have increased nocturnal melatonin secretion while in hypergonadotrophic hypogonadal males melatonin secretion is decreased. Testosterone treatment normalized melatonin concentrations in these patients. Taken together, the results suggest that GnRH, gonadotrophins and gonadal steroids modulate pineal melatonin in humans.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

PMID: 9404445 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Melatonin administered in the afternoon decreases next-day luteinizing hormone levels in men: lack of antagonism by flumazenil:
https://research.bmn.com/medline/sear...endertype=full
Melatonin potentiates testosterone-induced suppression of luteinizing hormone secretion in normal men.
https://research.bmn.com/medline/sear...endertype=full
Contradictions:

Melatonin administration had no effect on the levels or 24-h rhythm of LH, GH, T4, testosterone or cortisol:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


There is a lot of research on melatonin (darkness hormone) and most contradict each other. I am starting to suspect that it actually is pretty evel when you are trying to come off AAS or stay natural.

However, it is interesting that it potentiates lower LH, and I feel it's disturbing that it increases LH suppression induced by testosterone. I would suspect it would be the opposite since the quality of sleep is reported to increase and REM length is reported to lengthen. But, I have always suspected that the longer you sleep/REM length, the more possible GH release during the night. I know that there is a study where if your sleep patterns are severely disrupted or you don't get sleep at all GH and Testosterone output or negatively effected. As far as it applies to sleep...
My views on Melatonin with respect to sleep and its relative importance on a stable length of time for REM sleep patterns needed for productive sleep seem to work for most people. However, for me it seems to make me crazy. I take 1-3 mgs and feel jittery, like I'm a recovering crack addict, and get anxious. Go figure. But, for everyone else it seems to work and work well. The studies seem to point that testosterone is relative to stable neurotransmitters that relate to sleep. I think it works, but how it works most misunderstand. When I experienced the effects of it myself(mal-effects, I pretty much disregarded the substance entirely.) But, when I give it to friends and family who are having trouble sleeping, they rave about it. It seems for most, it helps you stay asleep longer, and recieve more REM sleep, and you fall asleep more sound than toss and turn like some. Those are the reported effects I have heard most. For me, when I take it, I get no dreams and no quality of sleep and toss and turn all night, unlike usual. So, you tell me. BTW, why are you falling out of love with it?

If I felt that my recovery was being inhibited slightly but my quality of sleep was better than I would take it and continue without question. But, if my recovery was inhibited greatly by it then I would seriously question it. But, there's always H C G, and the like to compensate for any problems post cycle. I see your point, and I would feel torn as well. Very disconcerting.

At first soy isoflavones looked good as an antiestrogen (like clomid a weak estrogen that prevents transcription). After doing more research I found the opposite. It does transcribe, albeit weaker than estradiol. But think about it, when you are naturally low on estrogen adding isoflavones actually increases estrogenic action due to the abundance of open receptors.
Anyway, melatonin is the same story. At first it looked perfect to me for recovery. Upon closer inspection and self experimentation I discovered many flaws. Studies as shown in previous posts, are the more direct evidence. The others are an increase of testosterone when melatonin falls
Here is another one:

Positive relationship between the nocturnal concentrations of melatonin and prolactin, and a stimulation of prolactin after melatonin administration in young men.
Webley GE, Bohle A, Leidenberger FA.

Institute for Hormone and Fertility Research, Hamburg, Federal Republic of Germany.

The relationship between the concentrations of melatonin and prolactin over the 24-h cycle has been investigated in a group of young men at three times in the year. Melatonin and prolactin showed a significant positive correlation (P less than 0.001) for all times during the 24-h period but with a greater contribution from concentrations during the nocturnal period, when both hormones were elevated. The positive correlation for nocturnal concentrations was evident in February and March (P less than 0.01) but was of greatest significance in June (P less than 0.001). In blood samples taken at 15-min intervals during the morning (0800-1200) and evening (2000-2400), melatonin and prolactin concentrations were not significantly correlated. Melatonin concentrations increased before prolactin during the evening and decreased before prolactin in the morning. Oral administration of 6 mg melatonin significantly stimulated prolactin release above concentrations measured after placebo administration, in both the morning (P less than 0.05) and evening (P less than 0.01) time periods; the prolactin response being greater in the evening. These results provide evidence for melatonin controlling the nocturnal increase of prolactin via its ability to stimulate prolactin release.

Personally I definitely felt a correspondence of "less horniness" on mel. Morning erections disappeared when I was on mel (and off AAS). It may be that mel promotes a healthy sleep cycle and therefore a more optimized GH release, but I content it is at the expense of testosterone.
Evil mel is out of my supplement arsenal, if I am desperate to sleep I will stick to magnesium, zinc and E. If needed I will add something stronger, but ol mel is out of here.

Yeah this may not have a 'great' use for bodybuilding but it does help us understand the neuromechanics of the brain, sleep patterns and the necessity for normal testosterone levels and the establishment of stable sleep patterns

[grdfreak]

Tweetthis is the article i hope it helps with all of us.

[Juicemonkey101]

TweetI take Melatonin almost every night.... 4mg or so. I used to use stricly xanax and valum on a nightly basis and am straying away from those now.... Melatonin is a great alternative. Hopefully one day i'll be able to just fall asleep on my own!!

[3Vandoo]

Tweetmelatonin makes me feel weird, im half asleep... weird...