as good as hcg?

[Solo]

TweetDo you think there are any research chem. combos that are as good as taking hcg post cyc.? I know 10 different people will answer this ten different ways but I'm looking for some more insight along with my own observations.

[juicinsfl]

Tweetgot this from The Sane Cycle by Big Cat

he also recommends using HCG in conjuction with the following:

The choice of a Tamoxifen/clomiphene/spironolactone combination

The choice for a tamoxifen/Clomiphene combo is primarily because of two factors. Only one relevant study (1) came up as far as recovery after a stack of products (testosterone and nandrolone) was used for twelve weeks, utilized HCG and both clomiphene and tamoxifen to achieve a complete recovery of the HPTA to acceptable levels in 45 days. The second reason is the raging war over which is the better post-cycle drug, clomiphene or tamoxifen has lead to several conclusions. The first is that while 150 mg of clomiphene and 20 mg of tamoxifen have lead to roughly a similar increase in LH levels (17) , but that with the high dosing of clomiphene over time there are certain disadvantages. Such as that it may damage eyesight and may act as a weak estrogen (18) in undesirable places (like the pituitary). So using tamoxifen alongside it will allow us to lower the dose and decrease the chance of these side-effects and add the distinct benefit that Tamoxifen (being the stronger of the two) will prevent the clomiphene from exerting any much influence at the pituitary, and that it will increase LH responsiveness to GnRH (17) where Clomiphene does not. Clomiphene is still used as it seems to offer other advantages, such as an increase in SHBG (19), which may seem like a bad thing at first, but which may decrease androgen-related negative feedback and may thus be in our advantage.

Regardless of the final outcome I feel I have settled the dispute, at least in my own head. Why bother figuring it out when we can use both, limit any negative effects and reap the proven benefits of full recovery ? I used to run tamoxifen slightly less long than clomiphene, but given the suppressive effects of the latter at the pituitary, I later decided it wiser to continue running tamoxifen as long as the clomiphene.

The addition of spironolactone is one of personal choice. It is a systemic anti-androgen that will reduce androgen-related negative feedback. Lack of androgens may also increase a loss of muscle tissue however, so whether or not you run it and for how long I leave up to you. I can only offer you personal findings, no studies. But in my experience the use of spironolactone during the first two weeks of clomiphene treatment offered a significant advantage in the amount of recovery post-cycle without any significant amount of muscle loss. But since I have no actual verifiable data on this, I will not attempt to push this too hard. The use of clomiphene alone should already aid in this by increase SHBG.