Qhams..need your help

[BABY1]

TweetCan you please share what you have done to help get your adrenals healthy? I know you have told me but of course I forgot,lol. I put this here because I think your info could help others too. Also, did you say that you do take a low dose of prednisone daily? That is something that helps me but doc wont do it. I know caffiene, stims etc are the enemy when adrenals are taxed

thanks for the help
baby1

[qhams]

TweetAbout to train some folks. Will do this this afternoon or in the morning tomorrow. I will put something together for you.

[qhams]

TweetI will try to condense this as much as possible.

About 6-7 years ago I started noticing some major changes in my body.

The first thing I noticed is my ability to lean up was becoming very difficult.

The second thing is I started accumulating alot of different injuries. (bulging disc, tendon issues, etc.)

The third thing was insomnia. I couldn't sleep at all. I couldn't go to sleep and if I did then I woke up several hours later and then tossed and turn.

The fourth thing was chronic fatigue (at the time I thought it was from lack of sleep). If I went through any type of stress emotional or physical, even good physical like working out or working in the yard, then I was drained for days. Literally it took me about 2 days to recover from working in my yard for several hours.

The fifth thing is I develop some chronic allergies and was getting sinus infections left and right. Before this I might have an allergy issue once a year or twice at most.

The sixth issue was no libido at all or very low.

I started doing some research on my symptoms via google and realized I had some hormonal imbalances. I found the books Adrenal Fatigue and Stop the Thyroid Madness. This helped me to start understanding what was wrong with me.

Finally I went to see my first doc. I chose them because they reportedly used Armour thyroid vs synthetic thyroid. Armour also has T3 and T4 in it, versus most thyroid therapy is just synthroid. However I knew it wasn't just a thyroid issue and knew that you need cortisol to convert T4 to T3 (T4 is inactive form of thyroid and it is converted to T3 when the body needs it). Anyways she ran several blood test and my TSH came back high, progesterone (Adrenal hormone) was in the tank, testosterone was low but barely in range (around 250), and cholesterol levels were crap,

She started me on some Armour thyroid and compounded progesterone/testosterone. If I felt any better it wasn't much and none of my symptoms went away.

So I then went to see this supposed guru in another city. What a f#$king scam! He just wanted to dump a bunch of supplements on me. He did some heart testing and all that came back good. He also did some labs and I got about the same results as the first doctor, HOWEVER he ran my DHEA levels (another adrenal hormone). It came back super low. He told me all my labs were fine. I said my test was barely in range and DHEA was almost non existent. He said my test levels were fine and DHEA wasn't that critical but if I was insistent I could supplement with some. WHAT AN ASS!!!

So went back to research and started realizing alot of my adrenal hormones were low. I started on DHEA (50mg day). Went back and got checked and my levels were now in the upper range for DHEA. The main improvements I saw in this was my ear/sinus infection cleared up on its own. DHEA is a vital hormone for your immune system. I highly recommend getting this checked.

At this point I didnt want to do the compounded test and progesterone. Crap was expensive. I went and bought another book The Testosterone Syndrome by Eugene Shippen. He went on to explain that there are two causes of low T. Either primary (at the testes level) or secondary (pituitary issue). I went back to my labs and realized my doc had tested my LSH AND FH. They were both very low. Again in range but barely. I mean borderline, a couple of points and would have been outside range. At this time I started thinking most of my issues were secondary (pituitary issue). So I studied up on HCG and asked my doc if we could give this a try. She went on to say this was illegal and she couldn't even prescribe it. I told her she was wrong and we went back and forth until I just gave up. Thankfully I had access to HCG via UGL. Got me some and tested it with a pregnancy test and I was in business.

At this time we were trying to have a child. Once I started the HCG low and behold libido returned. Went back to get tested and test levels shot up to the 600s from around 250. We also got pregnant and that was wonderful. The only problem is my estrogen was high as well, caused also by the HCG. My progesterone also came back into range. My sleep also started to improve.
I ran HCG for about a year, but hiding it from the wife was hard because of the frequent injections and needing the fridge to store it. I went back to doc and begged to be placed on test and she refused.

(on a side note I ran some tribulus hoping to boost test levels. The stuff does work to a degree but not enough. I went from 250ish to 450ish. But hell HCG and TRT was cheaper and I had a feeling eventually tribulus would stop working, so I dropped it.

At this point I switched docs. My buddy had found a doc locally that believed in testosterone replacement via injection. I came off my HCG and crashed hard. Total test levels came in at 78. Doc freaked out and said that was the lowest she had ever seen. She placed me on TRT and immediately libido was back and even stronger than the HCG. For several years now my total test has stayed around 750-900 at a 100mg/week devided into two smaller dosages (50mg on Mon and Thur).

TRT was great except insomnia returned. Remember how I said the HCG improved my sleep. I believe this is because it raised my progesterone levels, unlike TRT.

So with my new TRT it was easier to get lean and maintain/gain strength. However I wasn't sleeping our child was a newborn and unfortunately was a cranky baby who didn't sleep alot and ended up having to be held all the time. We later discovered that she had a neck injury, possibley from birth and this is why she didnt breast feed well and didnt sleep well. With the lack of sleep and my adrenals still not addressed I was very moody. I was aggresive with the test but hormones were not balanced. Had some real bad fights with wife and boss. I was hyper sensitive and flew off the handle at everything. Don't get me wrong I have always been like this to a degree but had never been this bad. I knew it was bad at one point during an argument I went and shoved my wife. Grant it she was in bed and I just shoved her head into the pillow, but I had never laid a finger on her before and she didnt deserve that.

At that point it was time for more action. At this point I had corrected alot of my issues but not all of them. Sleep/mood was my next thing to address. I studied up on the cortisol curve and how our cortisol levels are supposed to be high in the morning to wake us up and low in the evening so we can fall asleep. I had mine checked via saliva (SIDE NOTE: I had my cortisol levels checked a time or two before hand but was in range, but EVERYTHING I read said that didn't mean crap and you needed to do a saliva test for a more accurate assessment). My overall levels came back low and cortisol was really low in the morning and elevated in the evening. I knew now what needed to be corrected.

I first tried some herbs, magnesium, and some other supps to correct this but with very little luck. At this point I knew I needed some cortisol. (A few times in the past I had taken some for an infection and realized I slept better). I was also having alot of tendon issues and my chiro got me in with a rheumatologist to check me for lupus or any other autoimmune diseases (my mom has lupus by the way). He didn't find anything but luckily gave me a large script of prednisone for when my tendonitis flared up. He wanted me to take it just during flare ups and do higher dosages of it. I had chronic tendon issues and knew it wasn't something that could be fixed by running it for a week here and week there. I also realized that most side effects with prednisone come from high dosages.

Now cortef minics your real cortisol. It is very fast acting and is more identical to cortisol and is ideal for battling adrenal insufficiency/adrenal fatigue. Prednisone on the other hand is more slow acting and gives your more sustained elevated cortisol levels. However this is all I had and more importantly I had a legal script for it, so the wife would approve.

Prednisone is also 4X the strength of cortef. My tablets were 20mg and the body normally produces around 25mg of cortisol a day, so I started taking either 1/6 or 1/4 of a tab a day first thing in the morning with breakfast. Within the first week things started improving:

Slept better

Even better libido

Mood was more balanced

More temperature raised up and my temperatues throughout the day were more balanced (IMPORTANT: Your morning temperature is a good to measure your thyroid function, however testing your temperature throughout the day and have balanced levels each one and from day to day is a good indication of adrenal function). My levels were all over the place. It was interesting because when I worked out to hard or in the yard to hard my temperatures crashed and were all over the place. Once I started the prednisone my levels were very balanced.

Tendon issues improved.

Easier to lean up/metabolism raised. People say cortisol is bad and it is when it is high but cortisol is needed to utilize carbs/fats for fuel and energy. Again like all other hormones there is an ideal level.

.....I gotta take a break. I have been typing for about an hour now and it is time to workout. I will continue this later today.

[BABY1]

TweetWow, thanks for sharing. I have Hashimotos so my thyroid jumps all over the place. Have some of the same symptoms as you but not all. I did aggressive fertility treatments for years and believe it changed me up. I know the adrenals are tired. I have to take some time and read over your story again.

I have had daily fevers for about 2 years now and pain since I had my hip surgery 7 years ago. When on the steroid I do feel great but as soon as I am done it is all back. I have also read a lot about cortisol, and helped my sister, when she went through this too. She went completely anti inflammatory eating and it changed things dramatically. I have become one who knows what to do, helps others, and now needs to follow my own advice.


fuzos adrenals completely crashed about 5 years ago and he was so sick. We were a month away from going to Mayo when he started to turn around. It was terrible...
thanks qhams...very helpful

[qhams]

TweetBack from my workout....

So we left off that I had finally gotten some prednisone and along with correcting other hormonal imbalances was feeling much better.

The great thing about the prescribed prednisone is he gave me 100 20mg tablets. That script lasted me about 2 years lol. (remember I only take about 1/6 or 1/4 a tab a day)

After feeling much better I went to my normal doc and told them I was taking low dosed prednisone daily. Of course she flips out and send me back to that rheumatologist. He then sends me to a endocrinologist to finally have my cortisol levels checked. Only problem is I was finally feeling good and didn't want to come off my prednisone. He ran the test and said I was in range. I didn't stop taking prednisone until about 4-5 days before the test, so it may have still been in my system.

The endo went on to say I had no business being on prednisone and wondered why i was even on testosterone. Keep this in mind this endo was a fat ass and did not represent a well functioning OPTIMAL hormone physique. I of course brushed him off and realized I was just going to have to keep my mouth shut about this stuff. I ended up going back to the rheumatologist later on to get a refill on my script this past year. I just told him I was taking it as prescribed and he was like great and told me I didnt even have to come back in next time and that his nurse would write the script for me.

The only thing is I wasn't crazy about taking a long acting version of cortisol. Our cortisol levels are not meant to stay elevated. So I slowly the past year transitioned to only adrenal extracts and it has worked well. If something gets a little off then I may run some prednsione for a few days if I feel I need it but have not done that for a few months now.

I still am very prone to tendon issues but some of this I believe is from having postural imbalances and not addressing them 100%.

Another thing I want to discuss is the type of adrenal extracts is important. I use a brand called Enzymatic Therapy Adrenergize (this was formulated by a doctor who had fibromyalgia and healed himself using these products). There are two formulas. An herbal formula and an extract. I go with the extract as I mentioned early herbs had little affect on me.

So now I am on Armour Thyroid ( I don't even take the full prescribed dosage and my levels stay great). 100mg of test cyp a week and finally Adrenal Extract OR prednisone. This is my weekly regimen. I am a ton better. I still do not think I am optimal but I sure as hell will take it over the way I use to be. I am back to feeling for the most part like a normal human being.

In my next post I will discuss more specifically what I believe should be done, books, my supplement experience, etc.

Will discuss this later today.

[qhams]

Tweet

Wow, thanks for sharing. I have Hashimotos so my thyroid jumps all over the place. Have some of the same symptoms as you but not all. I did aggressive fertility treatments for years and believe it changed me up. I know the adrenals are tired. I have to take some time and read over your story again.

I have had daily fevers for about 2 years now and pain since I had my hip surgery 7 years ago. When on the steroid I do feel great but as soon as I am done it is all back. I have also read a lot about cortisol, and helped my sister, when she went through this too. She went completely anti inflammatory eating and it changed things dramatically. I have become one who knows what to do, helps others, and now needs to follow my own advice.


fuzos adrenals completely crashed about 5 years ago and he was so sick. We were a month away from going to Mayo when he started to turn around. It was terrible...
thanks qhams...very helpful

Your whole endocrine system is tied together, so it is possible that the fertility treatments affected other hormones. Another thought is you may have had a preexisting hormonal imbalance causing the fertility issue.

Cortico-Steroids suppress your immune system and it almost sounds like your body is attaching itself since the surgery. Not sure why? Maybe the body is rejecting the hip replacement? I don't know just throwing stuff out there. Of course you said you had issues before surgery, correct? If that is the case then the surgery isn't the cause.

The anti-inflammatory diets are very hard to follow but for those that are desperate it is worth a try. I tried going gluten and dairy free but it was a struggle. I tried it a few weeks and didn't notice any change and hated the diet. LOL.

I even did the food allergy testing. I tested positive for so many things I was like screw this. (rice, gluten, dairy, nuts, etc. etc.). I will say when I eliminate milk/icecream I do feel better. Cream,butter, whey protein, etc. doesnt affect me but milk/icecream does.

Because I had so many other endocrine issues and my FSH/LH levels were so low I really question if I have an underlying pituitary issue and the thyroid,adrenal, and low testosterone levels are secondary from it. I am just speculating.

[BABY1]

TweetSo true. I learned a whole lot many years ago back when I had my Reproductive Endo doc. he was one of the best. Pumped me up with a whole lot of hormones and experimental shit. All worth it though

[trekrider215]

TweetI know I've put a beating on my adrenals over the years from various supplements/medications. I feel like shit on a day to day basis. Can you guys recommend a good supplements for bringing back adrenal health? Also, where is a good place to order it from? Thanks so much.

and thanks for taking the type to write up all of your experiences Qhams.

[BABY1]

Tweet

I know I've put a beating on my adrenals over the years from various supplements/medications. I feel like shit on a day to day basis. Can you guys recommend a good supplements for bringing back adrenal health? Also, where is a good place to order it from? Thanks so much.

and thanks for taking the type to write up all of your experiences Qhams.

Just started a new supp. The only other supp I take is turmeric. I will report back on how this works. So far I can handle it so that is a plus. I picked mine up from a local store. No junk in this supp.
Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health with Holy Basil & Rhodiola, Liquid-Filled Capsules

[guns01]

Tweetall you guys keep in mind their is a difference between adrenal burn out and beta 2 burnout. if you are taking tons and tons of beta 2 agonist like clen and ephedrine or ephedrine precursors you have beta 2 burnout not adrenal issues. drop those supps or add in some keto or benadryl and see if that helps. equal or greater time off from any stims completely will also help out a boat load and both issues with adrenals and beta 2 issues. you got to give them puppies some rest to let them normalize back out before hammering them out again. always keep the equal to or greater time off with any stim based product. hell the same thing goes for heat base as well haha

[qhams]

TweetHere is some more information I promised.

First you need to know if you have adrenal fatigue/adrenal insufficiency. Below is an online test you can take...

https://adrenalfatigue.org/burnout-questionnaire/

If you do suspect adrenal fatigue/insufficiency then the next step is to get them checked. Without this information you really do not know what the hell the problem is.

https://adrenalfatigue.org/saliva-te...enal-hormones/

Saliva test are best IMO for checking adrenal functions, however most doctors do not believe in, know about, or know how to read them. Some tests you can get your doc to check are the following.

Progesterone
DHEA
Cortisol (preferable in the AM)
ACTH challenge
Thyroid - TSH, Free T3, Free T4

More info on these right here... https://adrenalfatiguesolution.com/te...renal-fatigue/

More good information on adrenal fatigue. https://www.nutri-meds.com/category_s/84.htm

I discovered my temperature was a good reflector on metabolic rate and health. Start taking your temperature several times a day at the same time and record it. The link above explains how to do this.

People with weak adrenals are prone to blood sugar issues. I highly recommend a diet high in protein and fiber. But I recommend that to about everyone. The more you can keep your blood sugar stabilized the less stress on the adrenals. Choose lower glycemic carbs and keep fat at a moderate level (around 30% of your calories). Fat intake has a direct impact on your hormones. Low levels of fat in your diet equal poor hormone levels, as fat in your diet helps produce hormones. Think zone diet when you think overall health or blood sugar balance (30% protein, 40% carbs, and 30% fat). You can always manipulate these levels to fit what works best for you. Avoid sugar, caffeine, and alcohol as much as possible. Also do not cut out salt. Salt has a positive impact on your adrenals. Some with low adrenals will place salt in water first thing in the morning and drink it. If you sweat alot you dump alot of electrolytes. I sweat alot and always take metasalt after my workouts. It is a good blend of different electrolytes.

Supplements:
There are many out there that help the adrenals but here are a few:

The ones I personally use daily and recommend are:
Magnesium - get a chelated form. https://www.vitacost.com/doctors-best...m&ta=magneisum

Vitamin C

Adrenal Stress End - used this at the beginning but my case was more severe so I know your Adrenergize. https://www.vitacost.com/enzymatic-th...ta=adrenergize

GABA - I take this before bed. Helps me sleep.

Fibromalic Supplement - https://www.fibromalic.com/ - I use to have ALOT of trigger points and since taking this product it was reduced dramatically and I sleep much better. I take this daily. It has magnesium in it, so this is my new source of magnesium.

Another good article:
https://draxe.com/3-steps-to-heal-adrenal-fatigue/

EXERCISE:
Exercise is great, but for those with weak adrenal output it can be too much stress. Depending on how bad your case is you will want to be mindful of this. I use to use my body temperatures as a sign of my training. When I did a really hard session I would crash for a day or two (low temperatures and no energy). Now that I am taking adrenal extracts my body handles stress much better and I now can train 5-6 days a week and feel pretty good most of the time.

For those with weak adrenals I recommend low intensity exercise like brisk walking, light swimming, yoga, etc. As your adrenals heal then you can slowly add in some strength training into your regimen. Again listen to your body.

Overall
Not everyone needs adrenal extracts/cortisol to help them. First make changes to your diet, sleep, and nutrition. After several weeks if you do not know see the progress then look into taking the test to determine if you have an adrenal issue. If this is confirmed then decide your next step. Most doctors do not believe or recognize adrenal fatigue/insufficiency and only recognize full blown adrenal issues like Addison disease or Cushings disease. There is an ideal sweet spot with hormones. Just like estrogen, testosterone, thyroid, etc. too much and you will have side effects and probably feel bad and too little you will have side effects and feel bad. You may still can function, but not at an optimal level.

I guess that is all I have to say right now. I will be glad to answer any questions.

I know Guns knows a lot about how the human body works and functions and he also would be good to chime in on somethings.

Baby has also experienced a lot of these same issues and I am sure has alot of good knowledge on how to help as well.

Good luck to those that seek to improve themselves. I went through hell for several years and anyone that has had this issue can relate. Once you get balanced out it is a world of difference and I now finally feel relatively normal again.

Books/Doctors/Websites

https://secure.endfatigue.com/

https://adrenalfatigue.org/

https://www.drlam.com/

https://www.allthingsmale.com/community/

https://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

[qhams]

Tweet

Just started a new supp. The only other supp I take is turmeric. I will report back on how this works. So far I can handle it so that is a plus. I picked mine up from a local store. No junk in this supp.
Gaia Herbs Adrenal Health with Holy Basil & Rhodiola, Liquid-Filled Capsules

Give it a go Baby. If you get results that is great! I will say that some people, like me for example, will not respond to herbals and need more full blown replacement with cortef or adrenal extracts.

[qhams]

Tweet

I know I've put a beating on my adrenals over the years from various supplements/medications. I feel like shit on a day to day basis. Can you guys recommend a good supplements for bringing back adrenal health? Also, where is a good place to order it from? Thanks so much.

and thanks for taking the type to write up all of your experiences Qhams.

The best things to do to heal adrenals are:
A. Sleep
B. Balanced Nutrition - think high protein, moderate fat, and good carbs. Try to eat every 3-4 hours to keep blood sugar stabilized. Cut out sugar, caff., and alcohol
C. Watch your training - cut volume back until your energy returns. I know this can be hard for us.
D. Reduce stress in your life - people who are toxic to you cut them out. Less stress = healthier adrenals.

Supplements:
Definitely magnesium. Everyone IMO should take magnesium on a daily basis. Take it before bed and you should sleep better.
Vitamin C - 1-3 grams a day
phosphatidylserine - I forget the dosage I think it was around 1000mg before bed. This can help lower cortisol levels in the evening so you sleep better.
Enzymatic Therapy is a great brand - https://www.enzymatictherapy.com/Prod...tress-End.aspx
You can try herbal supplement like what baby is using. Here is a good brand IMO - https://www.amazon.com/Herbal-ADRENe.../dp/B000F4T43K

[BABY1]

Tweet

all you guys keep in mind their is a difference between adrenal burn out and beta 2 burnout. if you are taking tons and tons of beta 2 agonist like clen and ephedrine or ephedrine precursors you have beta 2 burnout not adrenal issues. drop those supps or add in some keto or benadryl and see if that helps. equal or greater time off from any stims completely will also help out a boat load and both issues with adrenals and beta 2 issues. you got to give them puppies some rest to let them normalize back out before hammering them out again. always keep the equal to or greater time off with any stim based product. hell the same thing goes for heat base as well haha

I would think one could have both. Ephedra and clen can def affect adrenals but I would think they wouldn't burn everyones out. Just depends what kind of stress ones body is under already, imo.

[BABY1]

Tweet

Give it a go Baby. If you get results that is great! I will say that some people, like me for example, will not respond to herbals and need more full blown replacement with cortef or adrenal extracts.

herbs are not doing a whole lot for me lately but we will see. the turmeric has helped a little but time to take a break form it.