overcoming a cycle plateau

[cyberstefke]

TweetA friend is on a 16 wk cycle and is he's now at wk 10. His progress in the first 6 wks was very good but since a wk or 2-3 he's just staying where he is.



While searching for an answer I came across this in ALR's book: "My experience has been that a cycle of 8 weeks providing a continuous plasma level weekly of 400-800 mg testosterone begins to fail to provide results about week #6 in most cases. This is because the level of endogenous catabolic hormones becomes elevated as a reaction to the exogenous testosterone administration and cellular signaling proteins begin to become overwhelmed, which is due to the action of increase androgens. So anabolism and catabolism are again about equal."

Is this the (only) reason for the plateau? And how do you overcome this? How could he benefit from the rest of his cycle more?

[jamescb77]

Tweeti feell like maybe a diet adjustment is in order.

[alluprbdy]

Tweetx2 def needs to adjust his cals. Tell him to post his diet complete with macros and his Harris Benedict Formula BMR, I would be willing to bet he did not adjust his cals enough for the weight gained in the first few weeks. I adjust my cals every 5#s.

[horsepwr]

TweetAs far as a plateau being reach in 8wk, lifetime even. Evidently it is not possible by means of test supplementation. People get that 1st 6-8wk quick water weight gain, and boost. Then comes the hard work. i.e. eating that 4K cals of clean diet, complex carbs, shakes til ya can't no more. And Train train train, hard! Sleep! If the body stopped responding to a hormone supplement regimen, doctors across the globe wouldn't prescribe hormone supllementation for decades. The rest of folks lives even. The body will respond to the hormone so long as it keeps receiving the suplemental dose. It's just that early, 1st 8wks that it comes on very rapid. Kinda like a honeymoon. Both parties are as receptive as could be during the honeymoon. Then afterwards comes the hard work to keep the relationship building. Same with a 6month cycle.
The gains will keep coming on.

[jamescb77]

Tweeti like that horse

[cyberstefke]

TweetWell I don't know... I have him eat plenty. Maybe I should adjust his training?

In what rep range do you guys stay? I am currently making him use a big as possible weight and than performing some 3-6 reps with it. Sometimes followed by drop sets.

His strength is still slightly increasing, it's just the mass that's not.

[cyberstefke]

Tweetconcerning the diet...

I have him around 4000 kcal, a good 300g carbs, a good 400g protein a a good 80g fat

Harris Benedict Formula BMR comes around 2200 kcal

[GotClen]

TweetSounds like you have a good amount of calories. I would up the good fats. Easy to take in and can boost total calories even more. I use cod liver oil with lemon scent. Real easy to have a few tbs a day. Add more virgin olive oil to some of the meals. Just another way to get a bit more calories.
Best of luck to him.

We do have to remember it's difficult to just progress by the scale only.

[alluprbdy]

Tweet

Well I don't know... I have him eat plenty. Maybe I should adjust his training?

In what rep range do you guys stay? I am currently making him use a big as possible weight and than performing some 3-6 reps with it. Sometimes followed by drop sets.

His strength is still slightly increasing, it's just the mass that's not.

Well thats not exactly a solid #. It isnt just about how many cals either. Its about what your eating and when. I'm sure he has a diet written out, it least i hope he wrote out. Post it up and maybe we can help.

[firstenrgy]

TweetSo many good comments, responses... It's hard to reply.
I do agree with keeping your diet clean. What that is for you depends on YOU!
As far as your body raising catabolic hormones while on cycle... All this is true but can be overcome by:
Manipulation of diet
Changing training routines
Just too many to list. It depends on training experience, prior gear usage...

[cyberstefke]

Tweetthe full diet:

breakfast
homemade wholewheat-soyflour-whey protein pancakes with another two eggs and some baked beans in tomatosaus

morning: protein bar

just before gym: apple

gym around 12 am: with a gatorade

after workout: 10IU slin with 500 skim milk, some oatmeal flakes, 25g whey protein, 25g monster milk (cytosport) with some 80g sugar and a good dose of liquid amino's

one to one and a half hour later: same shake, only with 20-30g sugar

one to one and a half hour later at around 5 pm: large steak with baked potatoes and some veggies

evening: protein bar and two slices of bread with lean ham

night: night protein (100% micellar caseïne) with 300g skim milk

and then to bed

between all of this meals I have him sip on a protein drink, consisting of 150gr of an all day protein powder and a litre of skimmed milk

[alluprbdy]

TweetFirst off you donts have your macros posted which makes it harder for me to comment (amount of fat, pro, carbs in each meal)

you pre workout meal is terrible. Protien bars are a worst case scenario imo not for a diet plan. Your PPWO meal should be a meal not another shake. The steak meal should be used pre workout. I can gaurentee without a doubt the reason for the plateau is the diet. Post up the macros when you get a chance. How many cycles have u done that ur running slin already? Way too much for you based on ur diet knowledge and general cycle knowledge. I dont see how your getting 4k cals out of that diet. I dont even see a pro/fat meal unless your considering ur ham sandwhich one.

[alluprbdy]

TweetFirst off you donts have your macros posted which makes it harder for me to comment (amount of fat, pro, carbs in each meal)

you pre workout meal is terrible. Protien bars are a worst case scenario imo not for a diet plan. Your PPWO meal should be a meal not another shake. The steak meal should be used pre workout. I can gaurentee without a doubt the reason for the plateau is the diet. Post up the macros when you get a chance. How many cycles have u done that ur running slin already? Way too much for you based on ur diet knowledge and general cycle knowledge. I dont see how your getting 4k cals out of that diet. I dont even see a pro/fat meal unless your considering ur ham sandwhich one.

[jamescb77]

Tweeti agree with this ^^^. PLus you are depending on way to much of your protein and cals to come from shakes and bars. You really need to get the whole foods in there. I realize thats harder but thats what makes the big difference. Im still not sure what his goals are on this cycle either. Ill tell you what though. Every time I see a diet and it doesn't have one piece of chicken in it i know there is something up right away.

[alluprbdy]

TweetX2 james, chicken is in 3 of my meals. Its a staple of BB.