night, night pontiac!!!

[daved150]

TweetGM to pull the plug on Pontiac

The brand credited with originating the muscle car will not be part of GM's future




Last Updated: April 24, 2009: 3:08 PM ET


The Pontiac G8 performance sedan has been a hit with critics but it hasn't caught on with customers.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is preparing to announce that the Pontiac car brand, once marketed as GM's "Excitement division," will be killed off, according to a source familiar with the decision.
An official announcement is expected Monday. GM spokesman Jim Hopson declined to comment on Pontiac's fate, saying the automaker has no announcements to make at this time.
In its most recent "viability plan" - which will be updated to reflect this new brand cut - Pontiac was not named as one of GM's four "core brands." Those are Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. But Pontiac was also not to be killed or sold off, as were Saturn, Saab and Hummer.
Instead Pontiac was to continue on as a "niche brand" focusing on just a few models.
That was already a step down for Pontiac which, in 2008, was the third-best selling brand behind Chevrolet and GMC. That year the brand sold more than Cadillac and twice as many vehicles as Buick. Cadillac is a high-profile - and high profit - luxury brand while Buick is a hugely popular brand in China and is seen as seen as resurgent in the U.S.
Today's Pontiac is part of GM's Buick-Pontiac-GMC brand channel, created in 2002, with the plan being that all three brands would be sold in combined dealerships. GMC would, as always, sell trucks and SUVs, Buick would sell value-oriented luxury models and Pontiac would sell less expensive, fun-to-drive cars.
In 2005, GM (GM, Fortune 500) vice-chairman Bob Lutz referred to Buick and Pontiac as "damaged brands" during a conference at the New York Auto Show. That set off speculation that one or both of these brands was doomed.
Buick's hopes have been revived by models like the popular Enclave crossover SUV which has eye-catching curvaceous styling. Improvements in Buick Quality, which earned a top ranking in a recent J.D. Power dependability survey and a public acknowledgement by Pres. Obama, have also helped Buick keep its place in the shrinking pantheon of GM names.
Pontiac performance
Pontiac's association with performance dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s. Pontiac cars were designed with wider bodies for cosmetic reasons and the wheels were pushed out to match. This "wide-track" design became a selling point and was advertised as giving Pontiac cars a distinct cornering advantage over other cars.
But the idea of Pontiac as a performance brand was solidified in 1964 with the creation of the Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO. That car quickly evolved into, simply, the GTO and is often credited with creating a new class of American car, the muscle car.
Under Lutz, plans were formed to bring back some actual excitement to the Pontiac brand, which hadn't seen much since the Firebird - a flashier Pontiac version of the Chevrolet Camaro - ended production in 2002.

One strategy floated for Pontiac was to sell only, or mostly, rear-wheel-drive cars. That would set it apart from other GM divisions, and most cars sold in America. Rear-wheel-drive is associated with performance brands like BMW.
Unfortunately, the re-introduction of the Pontiac GTO name on a performance coupe imported from Australia didn't result in big sales. So far, the Pontiac G8, a rear-wheel-drive four-door sedan also imported from GM's Australian Holden division, hasn't been a sales success either, despite good reviews.
Pontiac's most popular products remain the G6, a decent but unexciting midsize car available as a sedan, coupe or convertible, and the Vibe, a small wagon shared with Toyota, which sells it as the Matrix.
Any plans to return Pontiac to the heavy-horsepower days of the '70s ended as gas prices rose and Congress prepared stricter fuel economy rules for the industry.
Those pressures resulted in GM quietly introducing the Pontiac G3, which had been sold in Canada only. Once again, Pontiac was selling a rebadged Chevrolet product, this time the Korean-built Aveo subcompact car.
Pontiac's current role in GM seems mostly to be to support GMC and Buick by providing a brand under which Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers could sell non-luxury cars, filling out what then becomes a full-line showroom.
The brand-channel strategy now makes it easier for GM to phase out the brand because it would cause less harm to dealers, independent business protected by strong state franchise laws. When GM phased out Oldsmobile in the early 2000's, it cost GM more than $1 billion to buy out the contracts of Oldsmobile dealers who were left with nothing to sell.
This time, most Pontiac dealers will have other products to sell.

[Dzone]

Tweetthats very sad. My parents had a pontiac. I used to take dates to the drive in movie in it.

[daved150]

Tweetpontiac was gm excitement!! they had ALL the muscle...all the sexyness....now....no more firebird. that sux

[daved150]

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[BABY1]

TweetThe first new car I ever bought was a 1988 Grandam then traded it in 4 years later for a 1992 Firebird. I had good luck with my Pontiacs.

[Dzone]

Tweetthats a sweet lookin trans am. Sad to see such american icons disappearing.

[horsepwr]

Tweetaw man! That's tuff dave! I have always wanted a '78 in that color scheme. I think it's '78, right?

But, bye bye Pontiac. I can't say there''s ever been any other Pontiac that comes to mind that's caught my attention. I know the Grand AMs, and Grand Pris could really set some odometer records without problem.<--sarcastic

[bohunt]

TweetI had a 78 Trans AM. That car would hug the road and corner like you wouldn't believe.

[daved150]

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aw man! That's tuff dave! I have always wanted a '78 in that color scheme. I think it's '78, right?

But, bye bye Pontiac. I can't say there''s ever been any other Pontiac that comes to mind that's caught my attention. I know the Grand AMs, and Grand Pris could really set some odometer records without problem.<--sarcastic

i thaught they should've did the gto more retro, but that G8 is a super nice car....check them out...

[horsepwr]

Tweetyeah, the GTO is another decent Pontiac. I think their junk remains at top of mind with me like the Grand Am and Fiero. I did see a pretty sporty looking one the other day. It was the smaller one. Probably the G6. It looked pretty cool. I was sittin in traffic trying to figure out what lines they got that look from though. Something else has had that look for the past few years. Eclipse...?maybe?

[skinnyman]

Tweetsad. my parents had a bonneville. that car had all amenities and really cruised nice. was rated as a top buy for many years.

[daved150]

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yeah, the GTO is another decent Pontiac. I think their junk remains at top of mind with me like the Grand Am and Fiero. I did see a pretty sporty looking one the other day. It was the smaller one. Probably the G6. It looked pretty cool. I was sittin in traffic trying to figure out what lines they got that look from though. Something else has had that look for the past few years. Eclipse...?maybe?

i drive a g6 for a demo...black, leather, moonroof, chromes, low profiles, jammed up!!! friggin thing gets 32miles per gallon!!! NO SHYT! its got autostick and its pretty dam quick!! the g8 is an awsome ride! the bonneville (as skinnyman said) is a great ride...an ssei with supercharger is sweet!! dude...the grandams of the mid 90' had some issues...but they've come A LOOOONG way from that!!! it's been 10 years that they've been on top of their game. the bonnevilles been tight for alot longer. the new firebird was gonna be off the chain....truly a sad thing to see them go! saturns next....dam shame. in the last 5 years, gm has really braught their "A" game to the field with saturn. they've always been an critics choice (although, i felt they were junk for years) and now theyve really turned it up...say good-bye!
when this is done, gm will be......
chevy, buick, cadilac and POSS. gmc (i've also said for years that gmc should be the truck devission of chevy!! gmc has the reputation and the resale value....chevy truck badge just waters them down). volvo may be gone, hummers toast, saturn goodbye, pontiac bit it, saab MAY have a chance in different hands, landrover could be fuked, isuzu quit passenger autos, chryslers history but the jeep will live on in gm or ford's hands. and there will be others. sad period of history unfolding before our eye's.

[jipped genes]

Tweeti have a GTO. love it. had 3 trans ams before that. and a grand am which was OK but the GTO is badass and the TAs were really cool too.

[daved150]

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i have a GTO. love it. had 3 trans ams before that. and a grand am which was OK but the GTO is badass and the TAs were really cool too.

they are great cars...sad part (or...disturbing part) is gm has been telling us they wanted to keep the pontiac. it was ALWAYS a part of their future plans...i guess it wasnt part of the governments future plans!!!
if there smart, they'll rebadge them as chevy's and keep them in production. they are some fantastic machines!

[Sal Paradise]

TweetThis is sad.
I'm a Buick guy from way back but the modern day Pontiacs are the only thing from GM that grabbed my attention in recent years.
More performance than Buick, sexier than Chevy and well Oldsmobile is already gone so....

It's just a shame - but if GM would regroup everything and simply have General Motors car and trucks - pulling all the best from the different divisions I'd be OK with it.
There really isn't much difference with the car components these days. It's not as bad as it was for a while where half of Chevy, Buick, Olds and Pontiac were all the exact same car with different badging but they're still all GM.

Make GM then car company and pull the best of the best from each division if they're truly hurting that bad.
I don't know I'm not that up to date on the specific car businesses.
I know that Toyota and others did a similar thing with the Lexus spin-off and then you have the Acura and Infinity spin-offs.
But they seem to have added higher end divisions and GM seemed a bit more disoriented.

I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like BMW has 2-3 other named sub-companies or Mercedes (not counting the silly Chrysler thing), or even VW - unless Porsche is somehow tied with it.

When the car companies we truly independent it seemed a bit differnt - but starting as early as the 60's and then later 70's and alomst all of the 80's these different divisions of GM became so similar it mattered only the name on the sticker to be the difference.

Maybe it's time to put away the nomenclature and focus on what's best for the business and the car buing public.

What are your thoughts Dave?
Coming from a different perspective and working directly with the car buying public how would this affect the overall sales and face of GM?
Are people so tied to their "brand" that they can't see past it?


Sal