HCG????

[BIGMOFO]

TweetWHO ALL HAS USED IT????
DID YOU USE IT DURING CYCLE OR PCT???

LETS HEAR EVERYTHING YOU THINK ABOUT IT!!!

THE BELOW READ SAYS YOU SHOULD DO IT DURING YOUR CYCLE NOT AFTER, THAT AFTER CAN EVEN HURT YOUR GAINS!

Using HCG
It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

Doses of HCG
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

Presentation and Administration of HCG
Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu (not ideal for the above doses!). Administration of the compound is either by intra-muscular or subcutaneous injection. It comes as a powder which needs to be mixed with the sterile water. The powder is temperature-sensitive prior to mixing and should not be exposed to direct heat. After mixing, it should be kept refrigerated and used within a few weeks - though there are sterility issues which need to be considered after mixing.

Summary and Price of Clomid and HCG
Clomid is more effective than HCG post cycle, but some long-term users like to use HCG during a cycle, or to prepare the testes for Clomid therapy.

Clomid is available in 50mg tablets most commonly, but also comes in 25mg capsules. 10 x 50mg tablets should be anywhere from




Human Chorionic gonadotropin also known as HCG; is derived from the urine of pregnant women and can be used to restore natural test production both during and post AAS cycle.
HCG is packaged in 2 different vials, one with powder and the other with sterile solvent. Open both vials and pour the solvent into the vial with the powder. Mix well and let disolve, this may take a few minutes.
I have seen HCG offered in 500iu, 2500iu, 5000iu, and 10,000iu before. For the purpose of this info, we will be using a total of 5000iu. HCG causes a explosion of test from the testicals. This is both good and bad. We want our 'boys' back online ASAP as not to loose any of our hard earned muscle from lack of test in the system, but if too much test is produced then estrogen can become a problem. Post AAS cycle, when most of the pro-hormones introduced during the cycle are used up, estrogen is high. When causeing even more estrogen from the introduction of too much HCG, undesireable side effects can acure. These side effects inculde but are not limited to gyno and estrogen related fat acumulation.
Too avoid these side effects, first of all if your estrogen levels seem to be higher than normal towards the end of your AAS cycle then by all means do not use HCG! Another way to limit any extra estrogen build up is to inject small amounts of HCG over a period of time. What works very well for me and has others is 500iu ed for ten days. The injections are made with a insulin pin and injected Sub-Q. Sub-Q or subcutaneous means-being used or introduced beneath the skin. I have used both the back of my arm and the belly..the belly being the most popular with most people. Because of the size of a 'slin' pin ed injects are painless, easy, and will not cause a build up of scar tissue.

Common mistakes with the use of HCG. First and foremost is using too much at once. I have heard of peeps using 2500 to 5000iu once a week for several weeks. This may work for some but for the majority it will only cause problems. Secondly, there is a debate on weather it should be injected IM or Sub-Q. This debate is still open in my book and I offer any input anyone would care to share on this. IMO, IM is used for slow release into the system. Because of ed injections, a slow release of HCG may cause a build up which is not what we want, also I think we should save our muscles for injecting AAS. Scar tissue can be a nusence and why cause any extra if it can be avoided? last but not least, "should clomid be used if I am using HCG as my post AAS cycle regimen?" YES!! By all means never use HCG without the use of clomid. Clomid most also be used for atleast 10 more days after the last injection of HCG.

One other thing to remember is once you mix the HCG, what ever is left over must be refrigerated for later use. When you prepare for an injection the next day, draw out the 500iu, and run the syringe under warm water or use a hair dryer to warm up the HCG. A cold injection is very painful.

[O2BESOHUGE]

TweetGOOD READ MOFO

[Phreak]

Tweeti used it in prep for nolva/clomid therapy. i waited 5 days after my last injection and started taking 1250 i.u. M/W/F. did this for three weeks. i also took 20mg nolva and 50 mg clomid and continued them for three weeks after i stopped the HCG. worked brilliantly

[daved150]

TweetWELP....JUST CONFUSED THE F*CK OUTA ME....THANX BROZ...LOL

[snickers1]

Tweeti used 14 days after last shot from last cycle and i did 1000iu every five days for 4 weeks and my boys came right back actually came back before the third shot.. this cycle thou gonna run 500iu a week just to stay a head of the game. why play catchup???? imo

[BIGMOFO]

Tweetanother post that says post cycle!

Human chorionic gonadotrophin is a strange hormone. Its only found in the placenta of pregnant women. For women it has fairly little use if any however, but to the male athlete it has one interesting property. It can mimic the action of luteinizing hormone (LH) in the body. LH is a pituitary hormone that is released and signals the manufacture of testosterone in the testicles. The sex hormones in the body work via a negative feedback system, where too much sex hormone (like anabolic androgenic steroids and estrogens) causes a signal to the brain to stop the release of LH. During long duration cycles, if natural test stays suppressed for considerable time, a male user will begin to note an atrophy in his testicles, meaning they will visibly shrink purely out of disuse. By administering an LH-mimicking agent, one can bring back the function of the testicles and let them regain their size. This is the main use of HCG.

Since it forms testosterone in the body to some extent, it can impart certain performance enhancing properties, but usually these are not major. The side-effects accompanied with HCG use (usually androgenic such as extreme acne), its low rate of effect, the cost compared to more effective steroids and so on will mostly keep athletes from using it for that purpose. Moreover it can be tested for in athletic competitions, so most will stay clear of it. But to the steroid user HCG is an almost essential part of a cycle. Because of its effect on bringing testicle size back it can promote the return of natural testosterone, since the first natural signals can immediately deliver a higher yield of testosterone in the body. And getting natural testosterone back online after a cycle is crucial, especially if you intend to keep most of your hard-earned gains. Without adequate natural endocrine response you will not be able to maintain a mass that was higher than before.



The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.

Also important to take into account : using HCG for too long a period of time or in doses that are excessively high, can desensitize the testicles to the effect of LH and would put your right back where you started from. Basically that would mean you spent money to no avail. In terms of side-effects one should expect some androgenic signs such as acne and there is a risk for hair loss or prostate hypertrophy, but in most cases this compound will be used for 3-4 weeks, so these should not manifest themselves to any serious degree. There will also be some estrogen build-up, but since the user HAS to be on clomid or Nolvadex, this should not become apparent either. Next to this, HCG being a fertility drug, one should be aware that increased blood pressure and blood clotting can occur. HCG is clinically used to make women ovulate, or to invoke birth in pregnant women.

Stacking and Use:

You would normally opt to use HCG after you've done a long cycle, usually 8 weeks or more. Note that almost all proper cycles are 8 weeks or more in length, its just that some beginners have a phobia of needles and opt to waste their time with an all oral stack first, in which case the cycle wouldn't be longer than 6-7 weeks. In these cases too HCG can have a use, but most of the time testicular atrophy will not have progressed to such a stage that it is an absolute necessity. In any case, you should run it about 3 weeks, totaling about 4 shots. One every 5-6 days. Start off with one shot of 3000 IU somewhere in the last week of your stack, then another 3000 5 days later, then drop to 1500 5 days later and a last shot of 1500 6 days after that. Sometime after the second or third shot, therapy with Nolvadex or clomid should be commenced and continued for 4-5 weeks.

In any case, I'll repeat it again, since it is important. HCG IS and always will be an important part of post-cycle recovery, but it should never be run too long or at too high a dose and should always be accompanied by the use of either Clomid or Nolvadex. The use of Clomid or Nolvadex should also be continued at least 2 weeks after HCG is discontinued to avoid the HCG causing problems

[daved150]

TweetFROM THE THINGS THAT I'VE READ...I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH NISH ON THIS, . NOT HAVING ANY EXPIEREANCE WITH HCG, HIS WAY (OR A FORM OF IT, LIKE THAT) SEEMS TO BE VERY POPULAR, AND MAKES SENCE AS A RUN UP TOO CLOMID/NOLVA....

[BIGMOFO]

TweetOK SO SOMEONE SPELL OUT HOW TO MESSURE IT! WHAT IS IU'S ON A PIN? CAN YOU USE ML/CC

[Phreak]

Tweet

FROM THE THINGS THAT I'VE READ...I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH NISH ON THIS, . NOT HAVING ANY EXPIEREANCE WITH HCG, HIS WAY (OR A FORM OF IT, LIKE THAT) SEEMS TO BE VERY POPULAR, AND MAKES SENCE AS A RUN UP TOO CLOMID/NOLVA....

it's basically jenetic's protocol. it worked really well for me, so that's the way i will do it from here on out. i'll probly use less per injection next time though, like only 500 i.u. per shot... on 1250 i.u. my nuts were huge within like 5 days!!! i think that was too much.

[Phreak]

Tweet

OK SO SOMEONE SPELL OUT HOW TO MESSURE IT! WHAT IS IU'S ON A PIN? CAN YOU USE ML/CC

say you have a 5000 i.u. vial. put 2ml bacteriostatic water in there, then you have 2500 i.u. per cc. that's how you want to measure it, by how much water you put in there...

the insulin pins i got were 1cc, so going to the ".50" mark on the pin got me 1250 i.u.

[BIGMOFO]

TweetTHANKS

[mrthnhmn]

TweetHas anyone shot 5000 IU's before, instead of 500 IU's? What happened?

[Sven]

TweetI have used it both ways.

The article that says use it post cycle is most likely out dated, because the info sure is.

Using it during cycle worked far better at keeping my "boys" full and from becoming atrophied. I started using HCG (during cycles) in week 3 ans ran it up until PCT then dropped it.
I shot it twice a week, one time I did it mon. and thurs. and the other time I shot it on sat and sun. I didnt notice any difference. they both worked well.

I dont suggest using it post cycle, as it is suppressive to your natty test, so therefore you are defeating your purpose.

[BIGMOFO]

Tweet

Has anyone shot 5000 IU's before, instead of 500 IU's? What happened?

to much and you will start *****ing and want Chocolate!!!!

[mrthnhmn]

TweetU know this from personal experience MOFO!

ps IM A HOMO!