ok just alittle questin here on what everybody uses. what is your favorite 4-AD brand and what is your favorite creatine mixture and brand?
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ok just alittle questin here on what everybody uses. what is your favorite 4-AD brand and what is your favorite creatine mixture and brand?
Sorry Dr. Gonzo...I've never used any 4ad brand....but for creatine mixture I like Plasmavol which has ALA.
Aragorn
I have used the ergopharm 4-AD transdermal, but this last batch I just made myself and it works great - and is a lot cheaper.
Hey Jorta How'd you make it?
This is not my work - but something I saved from another board.
I will note that I created two batches based on lovetoeat's advice. One was just 1-test and the other was just 4-AD. This allowed me to better adjust the dosages once I started applying it. I put 10g of 1-test/240ml and 12g 4-AD/240ml. I would say that these are pretty close to the maximum amounts of powder that you can put in them based on how hard it was to get them to dissolve.
Jorta
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HEre ya go LOVetoeat
First, hats off to curt2go and Big Daddy Chemo of the bb.com boards. Most all of this info has come from them.
What does PH stand for?
Pro-Hormone
What is the recipe for the homebrew transdermal mix?
40% ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL (99%) OR ETHANOL(C1-C4 ALCOHOL)
15% ISOPROPYL PALMITATE
15% ISOPROPYL MIRISTRATE
10% OLEIC ACID
10% PROPYLENE GLYCOL
10% DMSO (99%)
Why is Isopropyl Alcohol used?
ISO is used as a solvent. It will help dissolve the PH into the solution. It also has some penetration properties.
Why is Isopropyl Palmitate used?
IPP is used to lubricate the skin, it softens it up so the skin can be penetrated easily by the PH (dries quicker and is not as oily feeling as the IPM).
Why is Isopropyl Miristrate used?
IPM is used for the same reason as the IPP.
Keep in mind that you can use IPP or IPM in place of each other, or together, but the total of all IPP and/or IPM used must be 30% of the mixture.
Why is Oleic Acid used?
OA this is a powerful penetration enhancer. It screws with the lipids in the skin to let the PH go through.
Why is Propylene Glycol used?
PG this stuff is oily. What it does is keeps the moisture from leaving the skin. The more moisture the easier it is for the PH to penetrate. No, you can't just use water....
Why is DMSO used?
DMSO is the most powerful penetration enhancer that is out there that is safe. This addition puts us over the top. This is a MUST in the solution. If you have sensitive skin that gets too much by this mix, go to 5% DMSO and add 5% to ISO.
Is there anything I can do to make this mix smell better?
You could substitute 5% d-limonene for 5% of PG. I like to just put in 2ml of scented oil. Go with the oil. Don't screw with the recipe!
What are some tips on the application of the solution?
1. Apply after hot shower
2. Use a body scrub to get rid of dead skin - this should be done 2-3 times a week
3. It may be of some benefit to swab the area with diluted alcohol prior to admin - this only really beneficial if NOT applying after a shower.
4. Rub the PH on vigorously. RUB HARD!
5. MAX 10g PH in 240ml solution. Any more PH than this in the solution will cause a decreased effect in absorption, in addition to resulting in a waste of PH. (NOTE: This is debatable, as more can be dissolved in the solution, and still remain clear, it’s just believed that penetration is severly hampered by more than the recommended 10g/240ml)
6. Try to wait until dry to put clothing on. Hopefully for you it is only 5 minutes max
7. If you can, remove hair where PH is being applied. The PH can attach to the hair and thus not go into your skin.
Where can I get the necessary ingredients?
For Pro-Hormones:
https://www.1fast400.com
https://www.kilosports.com
For Chemicals:
https://www.lemelange.com
On lemelange there is a “Body Builder Supplies” section that has all of these ingredients, save for IPP. IPM can be used in IPP’s place, for a total of 30% IPM.
Also, many of these chemicals can be found at a local pharmacy or retail chemical distributor in your area, possibly at a cheaper price.
What might I expect to spend when making my first batch?
Assuming you purchase your supplies from lemelange
ISO – 1 qt - $10.00
IPM – 16 oz - $10.50
OA – 16 oz - $10.00
PG – 16 oz - $8.50
DMSO – 16 oz - $12.50
What are some of the pertinent volume conversion ratios?
1 quart = 946 milliliters/cc
1 ounce = 29.5 milliliter/cc
1 tbsp = 14.79 milliliter/cc
1 tsp = 4.93 milliliter/cc
How many bottles (8oz/240ml) will that make?
1qt ISO at 40% (96ml)/bottle = 9 bottles
16oz IPM at 30% (72ml)/bottle = 6 bottles
16oz OA at 10% (24ml)/bottle = 19 bottles
16oz PG at 10% (24ml)/bottle = 19 bottles
16oz DMSO at 10% (24ml)/bottle = 19 bottles
[So how much would EVERYTHING cost for the six bottle batch?
prices come from lemelange and 1fast400
Pro-Hormone Total: $139.50
1Test powder - 20g @ $4.50/g = $90
4AD powder - 55g @ $0.90/g = $49.50
Slightly more than necessary is purchased to compensate for potential mistakes and/or shortages. Also, the 1Test price break begins at 20g (50g is the first price break for 4AD).
Chemicals Total: $51.50 (broken down above)
GRAND TOTAL: $191
Price of PH per bottle (6 bottles): $31.85
Price of solution per bottle (6 bottles): $8.60
This assumes that you use 3g 1Test (base price: $6/g) and 9g 4AD (base price: $1/g), a PH ratio close to that of ONE+
Spray bottles are $1.40 each for bottle and fingertip sprayer from https://www.lemelange.com
What is the recommended dosage, per day, for the PHs?
1Test - 200-300mg/week
4AD - 175-700mg/week
How many squirts per day will get me in that range?
This is the part where you have to do some work. There is no definitive answer for this question, as it depends where in this range you want to be, and how much liquid your bottle dispenses per squirt. Last but certainly not least, it depends on the absorption percentage of this mixture. No one knows for sure. One "scientist" has speculated it could be as high as 50%, but this rate is highly doubted, as it is very high (we'd love if it were true though!).
To get the volume amount dispensed per spray by your bottle, do the following:
Quote:
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Transfer water to a spray bottle
- Spray the solution into a syringe (of course, with the plunger removed).
- Keep track of the number of sprays until you reach your desired application volume.
* As you get close to the desired application volume turn upside down with plunger back in evacuate air (much like you were prep for inject).
* This gets the spray off the sides and air out. Read the bottom of the plunger…NOT THE MIDDLE OR TOP.
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For speculation's sake, let's go with the following data...
Absorption rate: 25% (a previous theorized rate was 20% w/o DMSO)
Target 1Test absorption/week: 200mg (the ratio of the absorption numbers are equal to the PH ratio in the bottle, as it should be)
Target 4AD absorption/week: 600mg
Volume dispensed/spray: 0.8mL (this is about what the Andro Spray bottle dispenses per spray)
Now we need to figure out how much we want to spray on per day. Since there are 7 days in a week, we will divide the target absorptions by 7.
1Test: 200mg/7 days = 28.5mg/day
4AD: 600mg/7 days = 85.5mg/day
The information we need now is the PH concentration (mg/mL) of the solution. To get this, we will divide the converted PH amount (i.e. 3g of 1Test = 3000mg of 1Test) by the total volume amount (240 mL, a.k.a. 8 oz.).
1Test: 3000mg/240mL = 12.5mg/mL
4AD: 9000mg/240mL = 37.5mg/mL
The problem is that each spray doesn’t equal 1mL though. So, now we must grapple with determining the PH concentration per spray. We’ll just do this by multiplying the above concentration by 0.8mL, which is the volume dispensed per spray by our hypothetical bottle. So, per spray, the following amount of PH is dispensed
1Test: 12.5 x 0.8 = 10mg/mL
4AD: 37.5 x 0.8 = 30mg/mL
We must bear in mind though, that only 25% of this is being absorbed, so really, we’re only getting the following amount per spray
1Test: 2.5mg/mL
4AD: 7.5mg/mL
To reiterate, the daily intake goal is still…
1Test: 200mg/7 days = 28.5mg/day
4AD: 600mg/7 days = 85.5mg/day
To figure out how many sprays we need per day, divide the “absorption/intake goal” by the “PH concentration per spray after absorption rate is factored in”
28.5/2.5 = 11.4 sprays
85.5/7.5 = 11.4 sprays
So, in closing, with the following, reiterated assumptions…
Absorption rate: 25%
Target 1Test absorption/week: 200mg
Target 4AD absorption/week: 600mg
Volume dispensed/spray: 0.8mL
Application of 10-12 sprays per day should get you to the weekly target absorption above. For your application, you’ll need to adjust the numbers to reflect your goals and your bottles volume amount dispensed per spray
KRIMINEY! That was long! Ok, so how long would a bottle last me with the above assumptions (please don’t take forever to answer this one)?
Assuming you do 10 sprays a day, the bottle would last you 30 days. Just figure out how many sprays the bottle holds (divide total volume [240mL] by volume per spray [0.8mL]) and then divide that by number of sprays per day to get your answer.
How do I combine all of these materials to make this solution?
Dissolve the PH / steroid in the isopropyl (or ethanol)
- Gentle heat may help with solvation. Simply boil a pot of water, remove from heat, and swirl solution container in hot water.
- Be careful not to heat too much or for long periods as you may lose some alcohol volume.
After PH / steroid is in solution add other ingredients and mix well.
Are there other formulas, maybe with less ingredients?
Yes, but let me preface them by saying that they likely will not work as well as the one above. Each one was at one time the preferred formula, but everyone seems to be showing better gains with formulas that incorporate DMSO. My uneducated guess would be that you could expect a 10-20% absorption rate, give or take, with the following formulas...
Old School Formula
60% Isopropyl Alcohol (99%) or Ethanol
30% Isopropyl Miristrate
10% Oleic Acid
Intermediate Formula
60% Isopropyl (99%)
25% Isopropyl Miristrate
10% Oleic Acid
5% Propylene Glycol
1% Carbomer 934 (it's necessity is questionable)
Advanced Formula
50% Isopropyl Alcohol(99%)
25% Isopropyl Miristrate
10% Oleic Acid
5% Octyl Salicylate
5% d-Limonene
5% Propylene Glycol
1% Carbomer 934
Original DMSO Formula
50% Isopropyl Alcohol (99%)
30% Isopropyl Miristrate
10% Oleic Acid
5% Propylene Glycol
5% DMSO
This latter formula (Original DMSO) is the formula you'll want to use if your skin gets irritated by the 10% DMSO formula listed up top.
I only give the tag names so that you can differentiate the formulas. Those tag names are not how they're known though, so don't think that you can say "Original Formula" and have someone understand what you mean. You still have to list ingredients and percentages when referencing the formula you use.
to be continued…
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My Dad
I have heard ALA degrades very quick when it is in this form because it is exposed to the air. Therefore it is useless .True?Quote:
Originally posted by Aragorn
Sorry Dr. Gonzo...I've never used any 4ad brand....but for creatine mixture I like Plasmavol which has ALA.
Aragorn
jorta thats alot of info on ph i dont use them but good post anyways
Heard this as well. Don't forget, good old Cell Tech has ALA in it as well :DQuote:
Originally posted by Speedracer59
I have heard ALA degrades very quick when it is in this form because it is exposed to the air. Therefore it is useless .True?
Just take the caps
I agree!Quote:
Originally posted by biggin
Heard this as well. Don't forget, good old Cell Tech has ALA in it as well :D
Just take the caps