Caber, Asin, etc. fight side effects but do they help or hurt gains?
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Caber, Asin, etc. fight side effects but do they help or hurt gains?
if you lower prolactin or estro to low it will absolutely impact your gains. you have to keep it all in balance or it is detremental to progress
the other side where doses too low and levels too high would be even worse tho right?Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
no not necessarily. either way can wreak havoc. when to low it will stop growth in its tracks, make your joints hurt, your dick limp and a number of health issues. too high and you will grow boobs, leak fluid from your nips, bloat like a champ and dick wont work but you can still grow. pick your poison on that one, i have always stuck to bloods and trying to keep as balanced as possible. now when i am leaning out to the max, i will crush my estro and prolactin down low low for max fat loss. same with insulinQuote:
Originally Posted by DethKlok
same with slin?Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
i keep my slin as low as possible when leaning out, yes. i do use it to load l carntine and also to carb load before stepping on stage thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by DethKlok
Is there something that can lower slin quickly or is it all bread and butter sh!t like crazy cardio sessions in the early a.m. and no lasagna?
eliminate sugar and high gi carbs. use a glucose disposal agent and keep carbs on the lower end. you can also use metformin as well. a few things i have picked up but one of the biggest is eliminating all sugar from the dietQuote:
Originally Posted by DethKlok
Nope. you peaked my interest beyond sugar. glucose disposal agents are supps that do what Metformin was pharma designed to do and that is getting serious about slin levels and life or death. in your experience is slin going too low or too high, in the only word I can think of is, worse? I have had my slin up up up from fvckin up up up my dose and I am still alright cz I got educated. But down down down from meta attempting a sweet cut whats it feel like?Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
ok, let me see if i can break it down. to high of slin rolling will make you fat yes because it primes for that. we want to keep fat intake really really low when we crank up slin but it still shunts the process of shedding off fat quite a bit ie making it harder. we also know that without proper carb intake it will kill you but as long as you have enough carbs you are good pretty much no matter how much slin is rolling. got to be careful there though because it will shut down your pancreas if pushed to long. slin to low will make you feel like ass pretty much shaky a little dizzy etc.... now if you arent manipulating it then it's no biggie, your body will self regulate that one and keeping it low is optimum for driving fat stores down as far as possible. best times to peak your slin is pre and post workout but for when you are trying to get super lean it is optimum mainly pre so you can drive in as much as possible into the muscles being trained.Quote:
Originally Posted by DethKlok
gda and met. yes you are correct a gda is a supp that is designed naturally to do somewhat met does. me personally i like to have either one prior to my fasted cardio or training or with my largest carb meal of the day. it will keep your pancreas from dumping a big pulse of slin but also allow the glucose from the carbs to be either used or disposed of. i did a test run for sns where i tested my glucose levels with and without their gda and the results were pretty damn good. i also like to use met as well but their gda works pretty damn good as well. cool thing is i dont have any issues with my pumps even while using one of these products. so that's a win win.
my take away from all the years of doing this stuff. need slin and optimum times to both grow and drop body fat but when trying to get super low body fat slin has to be kept at a bare minimum. less pancreas output equals more fat loss
Bump for this thread, tons of great info. In regards to ancillaries, that's why I always mention blood work. I've seen so many guys over the years move to the extreme one way or the other. I've come across guys that have no clue what ancillaries are, or how to use them and estro is obviously off the charts. On the other end of the spectrum, I've come across guys that get one slight little itch around their nipple, then panic reaching for every ancillary product they can get their hands on and drop their estro to damn near zero. Blood work is paramount when keeping everything in balance.
funny thing about the nips is a lot of times it comes from your mind haha. if you start thinking about it and looking you will convince yourself that you have a lump or they are itchy. i have done it myself as a matter of fact and their was no issue with estro. i had a buddy of mine that had terrible prolactin issues and he would tweak and squeeze his nipples like some kind of freak. they would leak fluid and the whole 9 yards. took forever to convince him that dex was not the answer and to get it checked and corrected with caberQuote:
Originally Posted by Yohimbe
I have no scientific proof for this except using myself and talking to others. I am pretty convinced that you will always gain more muscle when both your testosterone and estrogen is elevated. That is why I use noveldex and not an ai. Noveldex does nothing to affect estro levels. It stops gyno by, pretty much, sticking itself in the same receptors estro would to cause gyno. So, if estro is raised these receptors are occupied and you do not get gyno. Your estro level, however, is still raised higher than normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by DethKlok
An AI works by just killing off estrogen, usually too much, they are very, very strong. Using an AI your estro levels could drop lower than normal.
Only time this would be a very good thing is for a contest. Such low estrogen will make you hold less water and look harder in general.
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i have seen studies that show that you need estro in order to grow. we both come from the same mindset my man. killing estro for the sake of killing it is both haphazard and counter productive. not to mention you get the same sides as to much estro when you push it down to low.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcc0313
Yeah guns, some estrogen is beneficial. Too much is detrimental. I will say when i used to cycle and did longer cycles in the middle i would do HCG and nolva or clomid and my gains which had slowed would take off again.
i am going to start using nolva exclusively now instead of Adex. my dr freaks the phuq out every time i get blood work done as the Adex drops my hdl way too drastically and she starts telling me i'm a walking heart attack waiting to happen. i read years ago that nolvadex while acting as an anti estrogen actually acted as an estrogen in the liver and produced a higher hdl level so i got some nolva and have been using it and not only have i had zero estrogen issues as far as side effects but my last labs showednot only much improved lipids/triglycerides but my ldl dropped and total cholesterol is under 200 for the first time in a decade and assuming by next labs my hdl will be back where she would like. after coming off adex my hdl would slowly go from a 9 (horribly low) to a 24 in about 3 weeks which was much better but still not in the 40 range that is preferred. Definitely staying with nolva versus adex from now on.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcc0313
not crushing your estro with the novla is going to make your gains better and your joints feel excellent man. if you need an anti e and that's a big if, look into aromasin instead. it will actually help improve your lipids but again it crushes estro so gains will be slower and joints will feel the painQuote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg
thanks for the info. i've never had huge issues with needing an anti E but it was always a case of that's what everyone is doing so better safe than sorry but i think the nolva will be better suited for me and the joints not taking more of a beating will be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by guns01
nolva should be plenty then and your joints will thank you for itQuote:
Originally Posted by BigDawg