TweetAs its your opinion to have them come home theres alot of soldiers and americans that want them to stay. You say

the countless wrecked lives of US soldiers and the lives of millions of innocent civilians killed in the needless war in Iraq.

well such is war and there will always be war and soldiers will die and ciovilians will die and thers nothing going to be done about it. History wont change and no one can predict the future.Liberals liberatarians republicans what ever there will always be war thats it.All the protesting wont do a thing

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Originally Posted by FUZO

As its your opinion to have them come home theres alot of soldiers and americans that want them to stay. You say

well such is war and there will always be war and soldiers will die and ciovilians will die and thers nothing going to be done about it. History wont change and no one can predict the future.Liberals liberatarians republicans what ever there will always be war thats it.All the protesting wont do a thing

There's nothing to be done about it? How about not getting into these wars to begin with. How about giving me one good reason why we went into Iraq. Can you?
I get sick and tired of hearing people that never went to war let alone been in the military saying that war is a good thing or that we had to be there.
I would like just one real reason why we had to go into Iraq.
It's my opinion to save this country. It's my opinion that we shouldn't be spending billions of dollars in a place that we had no business being in in the first place. It's my opinion that we shouldn't be sending 18 year old kids to their deaths for no good cause. It's my opinion that we should stop making the rest of the world hate us because we feel the need to spread our system of government around the world. Remember when the communists tried to do that? It's my experience, not opinion, that more soldiers than you would think want us out of this shit and it's also my experience that I've watched, as well as been one of, the soldiers that left the military because we know that what we are doing is wrong. Not only is it wrong it's unconstitutional. We went there illegally against the congress and against the Constitution. But well, the Constitution only matters when people see fit. The bottom line is that we're not accomplishing anything over there except continuing the bloodshed and hatred toward our nation. Along with spending ourselves into oblivion. This is the longest war in the history of our country and what do we have to show for it. NOTHING! Not a damned thing has been accomplished. Just the opposite. We are more hated and in more danger than ever because of this fiasco. Think about why we are there and what we've accomplished and give me a rational reason as to why we should have been there in the first place and why we should stay.
I invite all of the people that think it's necessary to go there and dodge bullets and rockets and bombs and lose friends and tell me how positive it is. What have we accomplished?

TweetIts your opinion and you have one just like the rest of everyone else who doesnt agree with you. People make there own judgements when the join the military and war might happen and thats the risk they take when they join.and what do you mean you left the military did you quit. See stray its just your opinion and yes you were there but you dont know for a fact that more soldiers hate it then want to stay and fight to protect our country and our soldiers.You said you get sick and tired of hearing people that never went to war let alone been in the military saying that war is a good thing or that we had to be there well myself and millions of others say its the right thing to do. Your not going to win this argument nor will I its our opinions. My dad fought in the korean war he stayed he didnt quit and then his time was done in korea. He fought for his country and didnt complain about it.I have his American Flag he got when he passed away and I treasure it. Do you think your going to change the way our history will be,Theres always going to be war in this world until the end comes god forbid.

TweetHere's a fact for anyone who believes more soldiers are for the war. Ron Paul received more campaign contributions than any other presidential candidate, and more than all of the Republicans combined.

My opinion is with Straydoglogic on the fact that it needs to end. Yet, whether or not we argue over the ideological reasons for the war makes no difference in the real trouble that lies ahead for continuing the battles. The problem we will face as a country is that our currency is going to go bust. There is no need in arguing over this point, but do so if you wish. We are in serious financial trouble. There is no way out for America by maintaining the current level of spending. The wars are draining our country dry along with other ****ive spending. My advice for those who disagree is to start reading up on our currency, debt, and hyperinflation. My biggest fear is that our country will go broke the same as Greece did, but with nobody there to bail us out, unless of course we give up our sovereignty in return. Therefore, we can all complain about the war all we want, but those who still support it need to check their premises, and do some serious fact checking with regard to our financial situation. This is not rocket science, nor does it take a PhD Economist to realize the trouble we're in. If we make it another five years before going broke I will be surprised.

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Originally Posted by FUZO

and what do you mean you left the military did you quit.

I wouldn't call it quitting. I fulfilled my obligation and got out when my contract was up. So yeah, I quit when my time was done. And it did it solely based on the war and the corrupt government. Trust me, I LOVED the job and loved the people I served with. In no other occupation are you going to find the camaraderie and I miss that. But I felt like a hypocrite waking up every morning and putting on that uniform knowing that I was against everything we were doing. It's not even just the war, if you had any idea the millions of dollars we waste it would piss you off I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by JsJs24

My biggest fear is that our country will go broke the same as Greece did, but with nobody there to bail us out, unless of course we give up our sovereignty in return.

Speaking of Greece, here's an article to read.

A Greek Crisis is Coming to America

By Niall Ferguson

February 11, 2010 "FT" -- Feb. 10, 2010 -- It began in Athens. It is spreading to Lisbon and Madrid. But it would be a grave mistake to assume that the sovereign debt crisis that is unfolding will remain confined to the weaker eurozone economies. For this is more than just a Mediterranean problem with a farmyard acronym. It is a fiscal crisis of the western world. Its ramifications are far more profound than most investors currently appreciate.

There is of course a distinctive feature to the eurozone crisis. Because of the way the European Monetary Union was designed, there is in fact no mechanism for a bail-out of the Greek government by the European Union, other member states or the European Central Bank (articles 123 and 125 of the Lisbon treaty). True, Article 122 may be invoked by the European Council to assist a member state that is “seriously threatened with severe difficulties caused by natural disasters or exceptional occurrences beyond its control”, but at this point nobody wants to pretend that Greece’s yawning deficit was an act of God. Nor is there a way for Greece to devalue its currency, as it would have done in the pre-EMU days of the drachma. There is not even a mechanism for Greece to leave the eurozone.

That leaves just three possibilities: one of the most excruciating fiscal squeezes in modern European history – reducing the deficit from 13 per cent to 3 per cent of gross domestic product within just three years; outright default on all or part of the Greek government’s debt; or (most likely, as signalled by German officials on Wednesday) some kind of bail-out led by Berlin. Because none of these options is very appealing, and because any decision about Greece will have implications for Portugal, Spain and possibly others, it may take much horse-trading before one can be reached.

Yet the idiosyncrasies of the eurozone should not distract us from the general nature of the fiscal crisis that is now afflicting most western economies. Call it the fractal geometry of debt: the problem is essentially the same from Iceland to Ireland to Britain to the US. It just comes in widely differing sizes.

What we in the western world are about to learn is that there is no such thing as a Keynesian free lunch. Deficits did not “save” us half so much as monetary policy – zero interest rates plus quantitative easing – did. First, the impact of government spending (the hallowed “multiplier”) has been much less than the proponents of stimulus hoped. Second, there is a good deal of “leakage” from open economies in a globalised world. Last, crucially, explosions of public debt incur bills that fall due much sooner than we expect

For the world’s biggest economy, the US, the day of reckoning still seems reassuringly remote. The worse things get in the eurozone, the more the US dollar rallies as nervous investors park their cash in the “safe haven” of American government debt. This effect may persist for some months, just as the dollar and Treasuries rallied in the depths of the banking panic in late 2008.

Yet even a casual look at the fiscal position of the federal government (not to mention the states) makes a nonsense of the phrase “safe haven”. US government debt is a safe haven the way Pearl Harbor was a safe haven in 1941.

Even according to the White House’s new budget projections, the gross federal debt in public hands will exceed 100 per cent of GDP in just two years’ time. This year, like last year, the federal deficit will be around 10 per cent of GDP. The long-run projections of the Congressional Budget Office suggest that the US will never again run a balanced budget. That’s right, never.

The International Monetary Fund recently published estimates of the fiscal adjustments developed economies would need to make to restore fiscal stability over the decade ahead. Worst were Japan and the UK (a fiscal tightening of 13 per cent of GDP). Then came Ireland, Spain and Greece (9 per cent). And in sixth place? Step forward America, which would need to tighten fiscal policy by 8.8 per cent of GDP to satisfy the IMF.

Explosions of public debt hurt economies in the following way, as numerous empirical studies have shown. By raising fears of default and/or currency depreciation ahead of actual inflation, they push up real interest rates. Higher real rates, in turn, act as drag on growth, especially when the private sector is also heavily indebted – as is the case in most western economies, not least the US.

Although the US household savings rate has risen since the Great Recession began, it has not risen enough to absorb a trillion dollars of net Treasury issuance a year. Only two things have thus far stood between the US and higher bond yields: purchases of Treasuries (and mortgage-backed securities, which many sellers essentially swapped for Treasuries) by the Federal Reserve and reserve accumulation by the Chinese monetary authorities.

But now the Fed is phasing out such purchases and is expected to wind up quantitative easing. Meanwhile, the Chinese have sharply reduced their purchases of Treasuries from around 47 per cent of new issuance in 2006 to 20 per cent in 2008 to an estimated 5 per cent last year. Small wonder Morgan Stanley assumes that 10-year yields will rise from around 3.5 per cent to 5.5 per cent this year. On a gross federal debt fast approaching $1,500bn, that implies up to $300bn of extra interest payments – and you get up there pretty quickly with the average maturity of the debt now below 50 months.

The Obama administration’s new budget blithely assumes real GDP growth of 3.6 per cent over the next five years, with inflation averaging 1.4 per cent. But with rising real rates, growth might well be lower. Under those circumstances, interest payments could soar as a share of federal revenue – from a tenth to a fifth to a quarter.

Last week Moody’s Investors Service warned that the triple A credit rating of the US should not be taken for granted. That warning recalls Larry Summers’ killer question (posed before he returned to government): “How long can the world’s biggest borrower remain the world’s biggest power?”

On reflection, it is appropriate that the fiscal crisis of the west has begun in Greece, the birthplace of western civilization. Soon it will cross the channel to Britain. But the key question is when that crisis will reach the last bastion of western power, on the other side of the Atlantic.

The writer is a contributing editor of the FT and author of ‘The Ascent of Money: A Financial History of the World‘

© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd

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Originally Posted by straydoglogic

Speaking of Greece, here's an article to read.

A Greek Crisis is Coming to America

That's a good article Stray. I do believe a financial bankruptcy is under way in America. How long will it be before it occurs no one can predict. However, it has to be in the next 10 years, and probably sooner in my estimate. The fact that the fed announced it will use more quantitative easing and permit inflation of about 2% per year is proof that we are headed down a dangerous path and the government and federal reserve are almost out of ideas. They have already created a liquidity trap, with interest rates near or at zero percent. Thus, to add more quantitative easing to the problem can not yield good results. To say they will permit 2% inflation is nonsense and a lie as usual. How can they control inflation to a precise level such as that? Inflation is a result of the velocity of money. Once velocity kicks in, inflation will run rampant based on the amount of velocity. Conversely, if velocity does not kick in then we will end up with another recession. The reason we don't have velocity in the economy is because banks aren't loaning money and businesses aren't asking for it in most cases. However, now that the president is starting to force banks to give out loans, we will see the velocity pick up, which will kick in inflation. The money that was created has not circulated through the economy (velocity), but once it does look out, and expect very high inflation if so. What we have to hope doesn't occur is hyperinflation, which would be the end of the U.S. Dollar. I am thinking the stock market will crash again in the near future, gold will continue to rise, and the dollar will grow weaker. When the market tanks this time people will be scared of what to do with their money, and I think most will buy gold as a hedge, though I do not believe it is a good hedge, it will prove to be better than the dollar until the government bans it, which I also think is very likely. Chaos will hit our country like never before, and we will then realize that the great founders were prophet like in their warnings about fiat money and how it would destroy the country. That is what we are witnessing. Let's hope something good happens but I don't see any way out. Some will say that a Republican majority house and senate could fix things, well, look at how much they've spent every other time they controlled the houses. Even under Reagan the size of the federal government grew. But then some will say they have learned their lesson. Really, and we are going to believe these lying thieves. The politicians have been deceiving us for 200 years, or every since Jefferson left office. But we think its going to be different this time, like they actually care now, and we should trust them once again. Yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it, but until then I will remain skeptical at best.

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Originally Posted by JsJs24

That's a good article Stray. I do believe a financial bankruptcy is under way in America. How long will it be before it occurs no one can predict. However, it has to be in the next 10 years, and probably sooner in my estimate. The fact that the fed announced it will use more quantitative easing and permit inflation of about 2% per year is proof that we are headed down a dangerous path and the government and federal reserve are almost out of ideas. They have already created a liquidity trap, with interest rates near or at zero percent. Thus, to add more quantitative easing to the problem can not yield good results. To say they will permit 2% inflation is nonsense and a lie as usual. How can they control inflation to a precise level such as that? Inflation is a result of the velocity of money. Once velocity kicks in, inflation will run rampant based on the amount of velocity. Conversely, if velocity does not kick in then we will end up with another recession. The reason we don't have velocity in the economy is because banks aren't loaning money and businesses aren't asking for it in most cases. However, now that the president is starting to force banks to give out loans, we will see the velocity pick up, which will kick in inflation. The money that was created has not circulated through the economy (velocity), but once it does look out, and expect very high inflation if so. What we have to hope doesn't occur is hyperinflation, which would be the end of the U.S. Dollar. I am thinking the stock market will crash again in the near future, gold will continue to rise, and the dollar will grow weaker. When the market tanks this time people will be scared of what to do with their money, and I think most will buy gold as a hedge, though I do not believe it is a good hedge, it will prove to be better than the dollar until the government bans it, which I also think is very likely. Chaos will hit our country like never before, and we will then realize that the great founders were prophet like in their warnings about fiat money and how it would destroy the country. That is what we are witnessing. Let's hope something good happens but I don't see any way out. Some will say that a Republican majority house and senate could fix things, well, look at how much they've spent every other time they controlled the houses. Even under Reagan the size of the federal government grew. But then some will say they have learned their lesson. Really, and we are going to believe these lying thieves. The politicians have been deceiving us for 200 years, or every since Jefferson left office. But we think its going to be different this time, like they actually care now, and we should trust them once again. Yeah right. I'll believe it when I see it, but until then I will remain skeptical at best.

This is why I've been telling people for a few years now to invest in gold and silver. Do they listen? No. But now that gold has hit another record high and silver is sitting at 24.32 maybe they should. The dollar is losing value and commodities are gaining. Because of this food prices are going to start to rise and people are going to be screwed. I urge people to take a look at the history and look at the Wiemar Republic and Zimbabwe. People need to understand economics to understand what's really going on and what the future holds for them.

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Originally Posted by straydoglogic

I wouldn't call it quitting. I fulfilled my obligation and got out when my contract was up. So yeah, I quit when my time was done. And it did it solely based on the war and the corrupt government. Trust me, I LOVED the job and loved the people I served with. In no other occupation are you going to find the camaraderie and I miss that. But I felt like a hypocrite waking up every morning and putting on that uniform knowing that I was against everything we were doing. It's not even just the war, if you had any idea the millions of dollars we waste it would piss you off I'm sure.

Regrets are for the Air force, I am a Ranger.

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Originally Posted by rc10j1

Regrets are for the Air force, I am a Ranger.

No regrets here. As I said, I loved it. I got out on principle, not because I disliked the job. I wasn't Chair Force so I'm okay. ;-)

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Originally Posted by straydoglogic

No regrets here. As I said, I loved it. I got out on principle, not because I disliked the job. I wasn't Chair Force so I'm okay. ;-)

Stray since you quit didnt you think you might of wanted to keep your benefits I mean that kinda outwieghs your belief dont ya think. Thats something you and your family needs

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Originally Posted by FUZO

Stray since you quit didnt you think you might of wanted to keep your benefits I mean that kinda outwieghs your belief dont ya think. Thats something you and your family needs

Who says he doesn't have benefits now? I got out of the Air Force, and I have great benefits and much better pay. Plus, the GI Bill paid for my bachelors degree. Pretty good deal, and I am grateful for the military. However, like stray, my principles were what drove me to my decision.

TweetI thought if you quit you lose the beniefits ok now I know ,cool