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Originally Posted by horsepwr

and that's where I remember placing the blame. The housing bubble was the primary cause, by a long shot.
I do concur, Js.

well..it seems to me that the forecloser mess came AFTER the recession started...chicken or the egg? lol...seriously, i dont think you can say it wasnt oil at all...alot of biz stopped becouse of high gas prices. when gas went up, there wasnt a forclosure mess!! i was there bro..i remember. i had a school that was spending 10's of thousands A MONTH on fuel!! i had to lay off employees. people stopped buying cars and spending money got short becouse everyone was a ffaid to spend...people stated getting laid off in industry by the 10's of thousands. no one was hiring, no one wanted shyt fixed, jobs dried up, ppeople went into forclosure!!! naaaa...gas prices fuked peoples heads up and they quit spending....which was a snowball effect that led to the forclosure mess.....thats the way i seen it

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Originally Posted by daved150

well..it seems to me that the forecloser mess came AFTER the recession started...chicken or the egg? lol...seriously, i dont think you can say it wasnt oil at all...alot of biz stopped becouse of high gas prices. when gas went up, there wasnt a forclosure mess!! i was there bro..i remember. i had a school that was spending 10's of thousands A MONTH on fuel!! i had to lay off employees. people stopped buying cars and spending money got short becouse everyone was a ffaid to spend...people stated getting laid off in industry by the 10's of thousands. no one was hiring, no one wanted shyt fixed, jobs dried up, ppeople went into forclosure!!! naaaa...gas prices fuked peoples heads up and they quit spending....which was a snowball effect that led to the forclosure mess.....thats the way i seen it

It looked totally different from where I was watching and participating.
Here's how I remember it. The housing market was off the chain. People were buying and selling in the same day, making $20K. This went on for a few yrs. It got real crazy, the buying and selling(housing market) from about 2002-2005. Everybody became a builder. Everything was going just fine. Regardless of gas prices. Then the housing market hit a brick wall mid 2006. And after that, came the layoffs and the rest came tumbling down. In that order.
Recap. 1)Housing market came to a hault. 2)The term, "hiring-freeze", spread throughout businesses across the country like the flu, followed closely by 3) layoffs. and 4) present-day, example; A big company that does student loans is closing 2 major branches. 1 in the FL panhandle, and 1 in Texas as others still struggle to keep their head above water. I haven't heard 1 person laid off, or one business close the doors because of the higher cost of oil. Except for yours.

Tweet...but again, I was there too bro. And it was the housing market that went 1st. It went strong for a few yrs, even when the price of oil went through the roof. Once those that couldn't afford their loans stopped paying for their $300K+ homes, everything went to shit. If a couple hundred more dollars of gas a year kills your ability to survive, and make the mortgage, then that's a bad loan.
I just did a little figuring. (that's what the smoke's from.lol) anyway. I just figured. The worst case scenario would've put the average family gas cost at $1000-$1200 higher annually. So if an $83/month gas hike puts someone completely out...where they must completely fold. Then they're practicing poor budgeting, and living well byond their means.

TweetI think not paying debt is stealing...plain and simple.Someone who doesnt pay their debts should face civil and criminal charges...back in the day,you owed a guy money and didnt pay up you was shot!

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Originally Posted by daved150

well..it seems to me that the forecloser mess came AFTER the recession started...chicken or the egg? lol...seriously, i dont think you can say it wasnt oil at all...alot of biz stopped becouse of high gas prices. when gas went up, there wasnt a forclosure mess!! i was there bro..i remember. i had a school that was spending 10's of thousands A MONTH on fuel!! i had to lay off employees. people stopped buying cars and spending money got short becouse everyone was a ffaid to spend...people stated getting laid off in industry by the 10's of thousands. no one was hiring, no one wanted shyt fixed, jobs dried up, ppeople went into forclosure!!! naaaa...gas prices fuked peoples heads up and they quit spending....which was a snowball effect that led to the forclosure mess.....thats the way i seen it

Okay, I agree that oil prices in that respect had an impact on the initial stage of foreclosure. However, I do live in the foreclosure capitol of the country and know a lot of people who have foreclosed yet none of them lost their jobs. Thus, it is safe to say oil played some part but not the full responsibility for the overall home mortgage crisis. Most people financed homes on arms that they could not afford once the rate hiked. I can think of at least a dozen people that I know here who still have their jobs but could not afford their new payment.

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Originally Posted by FUZO

LAST I REMEMBER IT SURE WASNT OIL THAT SCREWED THIS ECONOMY UP I DO RECALL IT WAS THAT SCUM BAG PRESIDENT AND HIS STIMULIS BILLS,PLURAL AND THE BANKS LENDING MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO COULDNT AFFORD THE LOANS. DJ YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN PLEASE HOW YOU CAN SAY IT WAS OIL THAT MAE OUR ECONOMY COLLAPSE AND WHY OUR DEBT WENT SO HIGH. YOU REALLY THINK IT WAS THE OIL

Yup. Everyone claims it was people with bad credit, arm mortgages etc. I personally was one that lost it all in the collapse, including my house. I had a pretty high interest rate 9 1/2% on my house, and had bad credit from 6 years prior. I also know a few people personally that had arm mortgages and others that had high interest rates like me because our credit system is a joke. All of us were able to afford our homes, including those with the arm mortgages that anticipated the jump in price.

So where was the big fail?

Oil prices started going up....way, way, way up! This is where i warned everyone that if prices kept going up it would be a domino effect that would ravage our economy.

So how would it ravage the economy?

Gas prices were $1.20-$1.30 per gallon, but shot up to $4.00+ per gallon. Assuming the average person tanks once a week (Most tank more) that's $179.20 extra per month per car...with the usual household having two cars going to work per day that is an extra of $358.40 per month coming out our pockets.

Here comes the dominoes.....

Because oil prices skyrocketed, everything that utilized oil increased in price as well. The cost of electricity went way up, the price of food nearly doubled because the farmers use oil/gas and so do the delivery trucks. The cost to produce any goods went up because factories use electricity which had already gone up in price, then when they sent out their products on trucks, the trucks gas expenses had more than tripled. Everything got out of control and prices became insane.

Food added at least an extra $100 to the bill a month. Electricity was an extra $50-$60 per month. So now the extra $358 a month is now swelled to an extra $500 per month. But wait, it doesn't stop there....

Services across the board started adding gas surcharges or adding the surcharge into the price of services. So people would be forced to spend more money. All companies raised prices everywhere to try to offset the cost of gas. In turn people stopped spending money on unnecessary items like custom closets, paver driverways etc. So those branches of the construction industry flopped. Retail sales started to plummet because people weren't willing to pay the extra prices, and with the extra hit in the wallet they had less to spend.

This resulted in a cut in hours, and a cut in jobs. People stopped going to restaurants and started eating at home more. Again cut in hours, cut in jobs. Now many of these people that had only a $500 hit in the family budget, now had to deal with the loss of an entire persons income and that $500 hit. The chance of finding a job in a field that you were cut from was impossible because most companies started freezing hiring because they saw what was beginning to happen. So families started defaulting on bills one by one. The default killed the construction industry, which made a mass lay off, which created mass defaulting and foreclosures.

Other industries fell one by one, with no job openings to take the place, so more people foreclosed and faltered.

As you can see it all stared with one simple thing....gas prices. That rose the price of everything, and destroyed it all. It had nothing to do with high interest rates and arm mortgages. That's what they want you to believe. They are trying to turn peoples attention from the real culprit...the oil industry, because if the people figured it out and flipped out, they would be forced to do something about it.

The majority of people that foreclosed, did so because they had lost a job or had a major cut in hours and no job openings forced them to lose everything. It wasn't because they couldn't afford it when they got the loan, it was because the added expenses stressed their pocketbooks forcing them to cut back on spending which equated to job cuts and an economic backlash resulted.

I could go into much more detail, but it took enough of my time typing the novel I just did. This should get across the jist of what happened though.

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Originally Posted by horsepwr

You didn't pay yourself out of your corp? Where you draw a weekly check just like an employee?

I was self-employed and kept all profit because I didn't have employees...not at my branch. What I didn't have was unemployment benefits because the market showed the industry had never had a complete die off. I figured even losing 75% of my business i still would have had enough money to pay my bills. But 100% die off I couldn't handle. I put out MASS advertising when my business came to an abrupt complete halt, and nothing helped.

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Originally Posted by pigmeat

I think not paying debt is stealing...plain and simple.Someone who doesnt pay their debts should face civil and criminal charges...back in the day,you owed a guy money and didnt pay up you was shot!

Wouldn't it be nice if life was so clear cut? So if you lost your job due to the greed of the elitist oil tycoons, and were unable to find a job to replace your job because of their incessant greed, you feel you should be jailed? Even if in your jobless state you still try to pay and even call the companies and ask them to lower the interest rates because you are trying to pay them back but the economy is making it impossible, but they refuse and say we would rather take zero dollars than lower the interest rate?!

I don't think you fully get what happened, because you wouldn't have made that statement. Sure I agree with people that were frivolous buying $400 purses, LCD's, cruises etc etc. But those that didn't spend like fools, but were forced into debt to try to survive that's a whole different ball game.

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Originally Posted by JsJs24

Okay, I agree that oil prices in that respect had an impact on the initial stage of foreclosure. However, I do live in the foreclosure capitol of the country and know a lot of people who have foreclosed yet none of them lost their jobs. Thus, it is safe to say oil played some part but not the full responsibility for the overall home mortgage crisis. Most people financed homes on arms that they could not afford once the rate hiked. I can think of at least a dozen people that I know here who still have their jobs but could not afford their new payment.

i can agree with that also, to a point...i live in the second or third forclosure capital of the world....detroit mi. and everyone i know that lost their house, lost their job first. not one of them were aboove their head until money quit coming in. i'd say i wasnt above my head until i lost my last 9 jobs!! its hard to make a living when your dealership keeps getting closed! i may still loose my house...guess i should be locked up!

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Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER

Wouldn't it be nice if life was so clear cut? So if you lost your job due to the greed of the elitist oil tycoons, and were unable to find a job to replace your job because of their incessant greed, you feel you should be jailed? Even if in your jobless state you still try to pay and even call the companies and ask them to lower the interest rates because you are trying to pay them back but the economy is making it impossible, but they refuse and say we would rather take zero dollars than lower the interest rate?!

I don't think you fully get what happened, because you wouldn't have made that statement. Sure I agree with people that were frivolous buying $400 purses, LCD's, cruises etc etc. But those that didn't spend like fools, but were forced into debt to try to survive that's a whole different ball game.

i feel bad for people who lost their jobs, and you are right...there is a difference between survival and stupid spending...too bad they cant seperate the 2 and make examples of those who did/are

TweetThis is why I keep an emergency fund in a money market account with enough to pay all my bills for a year. This took a lot of sacrificing to build it up, but is well worth the piece of mind it provides. Like Dave Ramsey says "rice & beans, beans & rice".

Tweetyea, well my rainy day fund only lasted 2 years....its just difficult to point fingers and say "he's wrong" or "your wrong"...if you aint walked a mile in a mans moccisins, you have no clue what he's been through.

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Originally Posted by daved150

i can agree with that also, to a point...i live in the second or third forclosure capital of the world....detroit mi. and everyone i know that lost their house, lost their job first. not one of them were aboove their head until money quit coming in. i'd say i wasnt above my head until i lost my last 9 jobs!! its hard to make a living when your dealership keeps getting closed! i may still loose my house...guess i should be locked up!

Sucks man...and although I don't personally know you, it's very apparent that you are a hard worker. I hope you don't lose it all too bud. I'll cross my fingers for ya.