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Originally Posted by mick-G

Mazda, what model? Daved, lol I did say GM b4 i said i owned a Cad Escl, lol! I know you are a Ford man, so talking to you is like talking to my brother-in-law, lol! It also depends on what price range you are looking at. If you are spending like 25K on a car, which i would say is average for the typical middle class homeowner. Id still have to say you can get a much better quality vehicle in an import and even knowing that alot are built in usa, they have dif specs and their philosophies are much dif then in the american plants, even the imports plants where they build them in usa. They instill this philosophy and is actually a part of their work ethic and strategy they use with their employees. Btw, the Taurus is comming back i hear.

i missed where i said, in responce to you, something about mazda? and, it's true, i've been with ford for a long time, but you've never heard me really bash gm. i trully believe they make a fine vehicle. i think cadilac is an excellent vehicle. i only rip on there trucks alittle becouse....well, becouse it's a chevy!!! lol...thats what i'm supposed to do!
the taurus coming back thing??!! bro, it's a joke!!! ford is way too fuked up right now. they are talking about renaming the 500 to taurus!! (at least that's what ford reps have told me)
like that's the problem with 500 sales...IT'S THE NAME, DUHHHH!!! they should have never dropped the taurus. they should have dropped the crownvic, replaced it with the 500 (that's the demeograph that is buying the 500, further crushing sagging crownvic sales) and just gave the taurus a good face lift! we (ford motor) was better off with nasser. yea, he was a slasher, and an @ss, but when he was running things, ford had enough cash on hand to buy all open market shares of toyota (hind sight 20/20, they should've done it). now, look at the mess. all becouse bill jr needed a fall guy for firestone!!

Tweetno biggie on the slight hijack...it's been very good to read actually...down here in the south ford vs chevy is all over the place and I can remember some people I went to high school with being VERY anti-ford...but they always made one funny remark to me...they'd say omg you own a ford??? "yeah-a mustang" oh ok, well that doesn't really count...hahahaha...

Tweet^My resposnse was for Gymdiva with with " Mazda what model?", not to you, lol! Also, i think it is a numbers game. If honda/civic etc out sells taurus and other Ford product sure your recalls are going to be higher, but overall there are way less probs with imports if you calculate the numbers of total sales it is way less. Only thing i can say is their truck are supposed good, but id still pass on them, lol! Anyways, i heard it on the radio about replacing the 500 with the Taurus, they didn't say anything about just the name. Just saying what i heard. It is just another half-baked marketing ploy imo to draw customers, but i think most experienced buyers know the game. Like i said b4 only ppl i know that have the Fords are Ford workers or ppl that are leasing, not buying. Why get rid of the Crown Vic?, then what will the older seniors buy, lol! I personally think the Mercury division should have kept the Mark or brought it back and then get rid of the Town car. Thoses were their sig lux cars. So what do they have now, the Zeyphr? Sorry Diva, but i don't think Mazda is a good choice for 5K. I think your best bet is to look in you local papers and at your local dealerships in their used cars. Id go to Honda, Toyota, Volvo. Something that is built well.. It is going to be hard finding a good car with lower miles for 5k, but sometimes if you look in your local paper there is someone that has to sell.

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Originally Posted by mick-G

^My resposnse was for Gymdiva with with " Mazda what model?", not to you, lol! Also, i think it is a numbers game. If honda/civic etc out sells taurus and other Ford product sure your recalls are going to be higher, but overall there are way less probs with imports if you calculate the numbers of total sales it is way less. Only thing i can say is their truck are supposed good, but id still pass on them, lol! Anyways, i heard it on the radio about replacing the 500 with the Taurus, they didn't say anything about just the name. Just saying what i heard. It is just another half-baked marketing ploy imo to draw customers, but i think most experienced buyers know the game. Like i said b4 only ppl i know that have the Fords are Ford workers or ppl that are leasing, not buying. Why get rid of the Crown Vic?, then what will the older seniors buy, lol! I personally think the Mercury division should have kept the Mark or brought it back and then get rid of the Town car. Thoses were their sig lux cars. So what do they have now, the Zeyphr? Sorry Diva, but i don't think Mazda is a good choice for 5K. I think your best bet is to look in you local papers and at your local dealerships in their used cars. Id go to Honda, Toyota, Volvo. Something that is built well.. It is going to be hard finding a good car with lower miles for 5k, but sometimes if you look in your local paper there is someone that has to sell.

first of all, it's the number of recals during the same model periods...that has nothing to do with sales. if you have to recall 1 item, for 16 different problems, and another, simaler product for 9 different problems, i'd say the one with only 9 prob's may have been a better built. i wasnt talkint total unit number recals mick. the cars have had more individule recall than the ford taurus, in the same model years. i know that goes waaaay against your "quality" arguement, but it's a fact!! i use it for closing all the time bro!! numbers are numbers, math is math...it is, what it is. most costomers admit, they never realized it, but some, go down swining!! lol oh, and dont forget, the taurus out sold, and battled with camary, and accord for many years...there total sales numbers are very, very simaler...i know, it's killing ya, but true!
seniors are already buying the 500 as apposed to the crown. they have an all wheel drive option, and they are pretty roomy (bigger than the taurus). i woulda kept the mark also, that was a good call.
and mick, most people are leasing new, true, but someone has to be buying the used ford vehicles retail!! i've been selling them for 19yrs!! they sell over book at the auctions, and most are beeing shipped out of state. they cant be all going to a crusher somewhere can they? i'll try to dig up the usedcar regestration report for the tri-state area...it shows what units and the number of units sold by make, model, and year...there was plenty of fords, and if i remember...taurus was number 1 usedcar sold and regestered!! who'd have thunk.
i wont be surprised if they do just bring it back...they are still building them for the lease companies, so it would be nothing to ship them to the dealer again...i'm just saying what the ford rep was saying AFTER they closed us down!!

Tweetmick...again, i really respect your opinions, and i know your a strong willed person...i know it's very difficult when you realize that you may have been a little incorrect on a subject that you argue about so passionetly...let me be the first to say, no-one will look at you any different when you decide to admit that i may be right. domestic may not really be as bad as you thaught. i know you wanna say it mick...i know it's eatin ya up...come on big guy...give it up..we all still love ya bro.

TweetLol, you crack me up daved!! Iam not nor did i ever say Ford are crap, nor are some domestic, as i have said i own a GM Cad, but for the medium income person, if you are spending say average of 25K out of pocket you can find a much better product in a foreign made even if it is made in usa then domestic. I may add, you are just as "strong willed" as i am, lol! All in all, it is in the opinion of the buyer what they want to buy with their money. Iam just saying imo if iam going to spend what an average buyer, which is 25K, make some comparisons in similar vehicles and i will bet import will be better. Heres one example: Mercury Mariner (average price 25-28K depending on options) 25-28k will buy you a new Nissian Pathfinder, say a Honda CRV loaded, etc. If you have 25K in cash hard earned $ where are you going to spend it?? This is the prob with many usa vehicles, ppl are leasing not buying, and the baby boomers that have the cash to buy, just aren't buying alot of usa vehicles, mostly ppl that either work for them that get the plans, or are leasing are they ones buying them. So they have a surplus of all these used lease vehicles. I wish their quality would go up, as i would be first in line to buy them...really.

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Originally Posted by daved150

dude...your thinking chrysler!! tranny prob's....the ford taurus, since 1990 has has 84 recalls...the honda civic, since 1990, has 160! tha honda accord. since 1990, 179. the overall cost of ownership for a taurus id lower than any other usedcar. i dont know how you got lucky enough to have all those prob's with a current model taurus...the body has been the same since 96, the weight, basicly the same, and i dont know anyone that really complains about the power unless they are used to driving a v-8....also, since 2000 the focus has had 39 recalls. the civic? 59! the accord? 66. and the mustang??? what are you talking about there??! 3rd gear trans problems, known by whom??!! dude, i have stocked and sold many, many mustangs...more than you probobly would believe, in the 19 years i've been at this, i cannot ever recall a chronic tranny problem in a stang...EVER! now, you want to talk about trans concerns...about the fact that the 2007 camry has a 3 second delay in the tranny when going from 3rd to 4th...when they figure out how to fix it, you'll see the recall...

Dude I had the pedal to the floor with that Taurus I rented and that thing was slower than any car I've ever driven in my life. As I said older model 93 and earlier Taurus's were peppy, but after 93 they are slow as balls!

Secondly about Mustangs I can gurantee you they have trouble with third gear. I used to work at Steeda and that is there bread and butter is modding mustangs. Heck they even make a Mustang for Ford called the Q. My point I know a decent amount about stangs and they are known for third gear issues.

Coincidentally my Ford Focus ZX3 had multiple transmission problems.

About Honda's I agree with you they suck, which is why I advised not to get one!

So to skip sounding like a broken record, that is my experience with Ford. My opinion however isn't biased, you work for Ford so of course you will think that nothing in the world is better than a Ford. Sorry bro nothing personal but I wouldn't recommend a Ford to anyone!

TweetThe problem with the Tauras was after 93 they turned it into a freaking bubble. So they killed the appeal of the car, and then they top it off by making it super slow. Of course noone wants an ugly, slow car! I for one was a huge fan of the pre 93 taurus, especially the SHO. But from then on it was a joke.

Ford really has no clue how to run a company. They remake the Mustang to be a modern retro look, it sells amazingly and saves the company. So what do they do to the rest of their vehicles?

NOTHING! The new 2007 Focus that they keep bragging about is just as ugly as the last. The ZX3 atleast looked good until 2004. Then they changed the lights and it looked like crap! Then the sales sucked, so they tried to change the lights again and it looks just as hideous as the last one!

What Fords problem is they are waaaay to conservative with their cars. People want modern or modern retro cars. If the Mustang sold so well, why don't they start producing the majority of their cars to be remakes of old best sellers?

Take the last Tbird for instance. The sales sucked! The car was nice. What Ford wasn't intelligent to realize is noone with half a brain cell is going to pay in the $40's for a freaking Tbird! Seriously! The problem is they aren't realistic with the good cars they make, so their sales suck!

Then they came out with their new F150's and the only thing they are good for is hauling stuff. That's great, but most construction workers I know have a heavy foot. The biggest complaint is the fact that the F150 is the slowest full size truck now in the market! They used to have the Lightning and even the basic trucks were fast, but the new ones look like a freaking box, and are slow! What the hell was Ford thinking?

If Ford wants to save it's own ars they need to really buckle down and stop producing such bland cars!

On a positive note I will say they are as of lately the best interiors of all the domestic cars!

TweetActully i did see the new Lincoln Mercury SUV and it does look nice and very nice interior, and i think the price was around 36K and loaded, which is not bad. Iam not totally bias, lol!

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Originally Posted by mick-G

Actully i did see the new Lincoln Mercury SUV and it does look nice and very nice interior, and i think the price was around 36K and loaded, which is not bad. Iam not totally bias, lol!

ok pal, i think i figured out whats going on here...sometime, at some point, a domestic vehicle hurt you, i'm right, aint i? and i'm thinking it was a ford...come on buddy, you can tell us...what happened? prom night and the ol' pinto took a dump?...so, you had to use your dates, mom's datsun? buck up little soldier, we're all family here...you can tell us!!...
but, admitting there may be a ford product, that you'd actually have a positive comment about, is a great step in the healing process...i'm proud of ya mick...we're all proud of ya!!!
mick, hope ya didnt take anything i said wrong. even though we TOTALLY disagree on this subject ( and if presented with the facts, as i have done, on any other subject, you'd probobly concede, lol) i still think very highly of ya my friend.

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Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER

. My opinion however isn't biased, you work for Ford so of course you will think that nothing in the world is better than a Ford. Sorry bro nothing personal but I wouldn't recommend a Ford to anyone!

very wrong my friend...i have said, over and over, i think gm makes a very good vehicle...i've even said it in this thread. and in 19yrs, i guarantee i've had more experience with tauruses and mustangs than you'll probobly ever will have. just becouse i have had many issue with chrysler tranny's in my proffesion career, and i think imports are waaaay over rated, dont imply i only wave a blue oval flag!! i wish we built the impala...i wish the caddy sts was ours...and i think the duramax deasil with the allison transmission is the best combo on the road in 2004-2006 3/4 ton trucks, and i've said that!!!

do you realise how many thousands of taurus's and mustangs i've sold in 19 years??! i'm not really gonna get into cobra's, steeda aftermarket, and saleens, and roush racing cars. i stand by what i said....i have never, ever seen any evidence of any reacurring, or chronic problems with the tranny's on a mustang...ever!! i'm not blind, def or dumb, and customers are never shy to call, and rip me a new one, if they have a prob. with a car they baught from me...

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Originally Posted by DJDIGGLER

The problem with the Tauras was after 93 they turned it into a freaking bubble. So they killed the appeal of the car, and then they top it off by making it super slow. Of course noone wants an ugly, slow car! I for one was a huge fan of the pre 93 taurus, especially the SHO. But from then on it was a joke.

Ford really has no clue how to run a company. They remake the Mustang to be a modern retro look, it sells amazingly and saves the company. So what do they do to the rest of their vehicles?

NOTHING! The new 2007 Focus that they keep bragging about is just as ugly as the last. The ZX3 atleast looked good until 2004. Then they changed the lights and it looked like crap! Then the sales sucked, so they tried to change the lights again and it looks just as hideous as the last one!

What Fords problem is they are waaaay to conservative with their cars. People want modern or modern retro cars. If the Mustang sold so well, why don't they start producing the majority of their cars to be remakes of old best sellers?

Take the last Tbird for instance. The sales sucked! The car was nice. What Ford wasn't intelligent to realize is noone with half a brain cell is going to pay in the $40's for a freaking Tbird! Seriously! The problem is they aren't realistic with the good cars they make, so their sales suck!

Then they came out with their new F150's and the only thing they are good for is hauling stuff. That's great, but most construction workers I know have a heavy foot. The biggest complaint is the fact that the F150 is the slowest full size truck now in the market! They used to have the Lightning and even the basic trucks were fast, but the new ones look like a freaking box, and are slow! What the hell was Ford thinking?

If Ford wants to save it's own ars they need to really buckle down and stop producing such bland cars!

On a positive note I will say they are as of lately the best interiors of all the domestic cars!

ok..let me try to respond here...
after 93, the new body style taurus became the number one selling car in the country for numberous years. when it wasnt number 1, it was just behind a remodled camary, then taurus would change a little and be number 1 again. so, you thinking they killed the appeal of the car, does not seem to co-inside with the rest of the car buying nation...i guess they were all wrong...for alot of years.

the focus...i agree. it's not my taste either, but that dosnt change th fact that i believe it is an overall, well built vehicle. and, the recall numbers seem to agree with me. the body style change over has been moved to 08. i seen them at the north american auto show. they are an improvment, but marginal improvment, imo.

i agree, ford is way to conservative. i've always said, if we could hire chrysler designers, with our engineers, we might just have a car company!

the t-bird? 40k$, 2 seater, case closed...i dont know wtf they were thinking. on a possitive note, if you got one, i have a list of people that will pay you too much money for it. call me, we'll both make some $

the f150...wow..how can you even think of going there??! 946,000 units sold in 04. the most of any one unit sold, in any calender year, by any manufacture, ever!!!...the 04 has a little hesatation when the peddle is mashed down. they used the same electronic throttle that they used in the deisels. it raised the gas milage numbers. it's great for pulling, but i agree, it wasnt built for racing. the 05 adressed the problem. the lightning will be back when ford can put together a affordable unit, that can take the dodge rt. that's a fast a$$ truck!! just dont count on it pulling anything.

Tweet[quote=mick-G;773615] So they have a surplus of all these used lease vehicles.quote] ok...i'm not gonna go into this whole comment you made (like the fact that you'd take a pathfinder over a mariner??!!) but this last part is throwing me....so, your saying that the taurus is the number one selling usedcar, becouse they have alot of lease turned in vehicles that were baught by employees? how many fooking employees do they have leasing taurus's??!! mick, it has one of the worse residuals going!! they are not a very hot lease!! perhaps it's the number 1 selling usedcar, becouse of what you get for the $. becouse most (if not all) insurence companies will tell you they are the best buy going. becouse they have a great tack record (one that you refuse to acknowledge). becouse they are continusly rated number 1 in low, overall cost of ownership? could any of these reasons seem plausable to you?