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Originally Posted by stone

This wound was caused by m193. A 55 grain full metal jacket round. Depending on the bullet the wound can be much different. A 762 bullet that doesnt expand, tumble, or fragment will create a very small wound. A 556 bullet that fragments can create very large wounds.


If the pic is to graphic I can remove it. I can also post a link that should have all the pics plus X-rays of the wound, along with information from the doctor that handled the surgery. I have never shot a person, but I have shot lots of animals with all kinds of different calibers, and different types of bullets. I almost always open the animal to see how we the bullet worked.


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man, i am going to tell you like this and i dont know where that came from but i have seen that 193 in action along side of the black hills (damn i cant remember the grain) percision ammo that we used out of our samr rifles. i have never seen a leg shot but chest arm and shoulder. all of them where taken with the samr and it didnt produce no where near that type of damage to the torso and that was going through the collar bone in one, the rib cage in another and the arms shot broke the dudes arm.

only way i can see that much trama being produced is from the round or multiple rounds striking the femur and pushing it through

that black hills ammo is going to drive me crazy now. they stopped precurring it for us in 06 or 07 because it wasnt a t and o, t and e item. same thing with our rifles, they were custom made and not mc program weapons so once they broke, they werent fixed they were sent back and not replaced

Tweeti love these after actions and discussions. now if between all of us we could come up with multiple calibers that would perform like that above each and every time we could make some serious money. i am going to dig through my garage this weekend and find the brass from the black hills rounds that i took shots with. i may still have one of the boxes also. if i can find them i will put them up in here. i think you can buy those rounds as a civilian

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Originally Posted by guns01

man, i am going to tell you like this and i dont know where that came from but i have seen that 193 in action along side of the black hills (damn i cant remember the grain) percision ammo that we used out of our samr rifles. i have never seen a leg shot but chest arm and shoulder. all of them where taken with the samr and it didnt produce no where near that type of damage to the torso and that was going through the collar bone in one, the rib cage in another and the arms shot broke the dudes arm.

only way i can see that much trama being produced is from the round or multiple rounds striking the femur and pushing it through

that black hills ammo is going to drive me crazy now. they stopped precurring it for us in 06 or 07 because it wasnt a t and o, t and e item. same thing with our rifles, they were custom made and not mc program weapons so once they broke, they werent fixed they were sent back and not replaced

Your thinking of mk262. Its the 77 grain matchking. It works great as well, it is accurate and fragments much more reliably. One problem with m193 and the newer weapons is the diminished velocity. M193 was made for 20 inch barrels. M193 is also very inconsistent. Sometimes your left with an ice pick wound, and sometimes it fragments. This can cause a lot of trauma.

the samr rifles were replaced with the mk12.

When people or animals are shot bullets can do some odd things. Pistols are relatively bad for stopping people, but you can conceal them. Everything has a give and take. When someone finds the best weapkn for everything, I want one.

the pic was one round of m193 from a distance of aroundn15-20 yards. I didnt beleive it was a wound from m193 until I looked into it further. I prefer expanding bulets because they seem more reliable, but fragmenting bullets do tremendous damage as long as tbey penetrate deep enough

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Originally Posted by guns01

i love these after actions and discussions. now if between all of us we could come up with multiple calibers that would perform like that above each and every time we could make some serious money. i am going to dig through my garage this weekend and find the brass from the black hills rounds that i took shots with. i may still have one of the boxes also. if i can find them i will put them up in here. i think you can buy those rounds as a civilian

I forgot to add it to the last post but you can buy it as a civilian. I have some of it, and they now offer a new version. It uses the new tipped Sierra matchking.

Tweeti remembered one dude when i first came in that was shot by a 9mm from a hand gun haha. we where getting ready for post and old boy drew his weapon and fired it into the side of the trailor that our react squad slept in. round went through the wall and through this guy's side about a half an inch above his hip. this was from about 20m away. he got up geared up and ran outside to get ready to move. that was until someone notice that he was bleeding down his side. another through and through shot and back to work in aobut 3 wks. only reason was from fear of infection. now if it would have hit that hip bone it would have been a little different story. so i do actually know one of my boys that got hit by a pistol round at distance haha, that bad boy went through the trailer wall and him but didnt make it through the other wall. i would say that's pretty good performance

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Originally Posted by stone

Your thinking of mk262. Its the 77 grain matchking. It works great as well, it is accurate and fragments much more reliably. One problem with m193 and the newer weapons is the diminished velocity. M193 was made for 20 inch barrels. M193 is also very inconsistent. Sometimes your left with an ice pick wound, and sometimes it fragments. This can cause a lot of trauma.

the samr rifles were replaced with the mk12.

When people or animals are shot bullets can do some odd things. Pistols are relatively bad for stopping people, but you can conceal them. Everything has a give and take. When someone finds the best weapkn for everything, I want one.

the pic was one round of m193 from a distance of aroundn15-20 yards. I didnt beleive it was a wound from m193 until I looked into it further. I prefer expanding bulets because they seem more reliable, but fragmenting bullets do tremendous damage as long as tbey penetrate deep enough

that's the round man. i am brain dead now after all the years of having my brains rattled haha. now for us and our rifles, we started with the dmr rifle which was nothing more than an upgraded m14(program weapon not a to te weapon) then we went to the sam r and then the mk12. none of which the mc had made a to and te part of our armories. the only weapons before i had retired that were actually on their where the 40s of course and the sasr. no ar style receiver in 5.56 or 7.62 had been added. they just ordered them for us and when they broke they were tossed out or replaced with a new one. great weapons for what we where doing at the time and a hell of a lot lighter to pack around and hide

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Originally Posted by stone

With 45 and the new bullet technology they do very well. Not only in gel, but in real world situations. Check out the link I posted if you haven't already. I have spoken to the guy who created the list when he was a member of a forum I used to frequent. He has been a part of autopsies after Officer Involved Shootings, and he say that the new bullets perform almost the same as they do in gel. He said if they strike bone they do deform, but the performance is still much better than older bullets like silver tips.

I would rather carry fmj that was 100% reliable rather than expanding bullets that were less than 100% reliable. I also wont trust any firearm for carry unless I have had a chance to put 1000 trouble free rounds through it. 9mm is also my preferred round for carry. There is virtually no difference in the terminal performance of service caliber rounds. With the new bullet tech 9, 40, and 45 all cause about the same amount of damage. Even the fbi is gling back to 9, and 40 was there baby.

i agree, that is why i stick with ctri D rounds. i KNOW they will cycle 100% in my shield

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Originally Posted by guns01

that's the round man. i am brain dead now after all the years of having my brains rattled haha. now for us and our rifles, we started with the dmr rifle which was nothing more than an upgraded m14(program weapon not a to te weapon) then we went to the sam r and then the mk12. none of which the mc had made a to and te part of our armories. the only weapons before i had retired that were actually on their where the 40s of course and the sasr. no ar style receiver in 5.56 or 7.62 had been added. they just ordered them for us and when they broke they were tossed out or replaced with a new one. great weapons for what we where doing at the time and a hell of a lot lighter to pack around and hide

Now depending on which service and unit your in tbey have mk12, and mk110. I hear a lot of people talk shit about the mk110, but I would love to pick up one of the newer sr-25's from knights. I like the idea of the mk12 so much I built my own version of one. I used the parts I wanted, but its built on a noveske spr upper with the 18 inch barrel.

mk262 is a great addition to military ammunition. As a civilan I can get ammunition that works much better than the men andnwomen actually goingbin harms way. That doesn't make any sense. I would like to get a hold of some m995 AP.