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Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetQuestion with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814
My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816
Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?
-- John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires.
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, July 16, 1814, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it.
-- John Adams, letter to his son, John Quincy Adams, November 13, 1816, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 19, 1821, from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the myth of the Incarnation of Christ, from Ira D Cardiff, What Great Men Think of Religion, quoted from James A Haught, ed, 2000 Years of Disbelief
The Treaty of Tripoli
Signed by John Adams
"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
"The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
-- Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, US Consul)
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise." James Madison -letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries." James Madison -1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
Benjamin Franklin quotes:
"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did."
- letter to his father, 1738
". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
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"I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it."
- "Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion", 1728
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"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Works, Vol. VII, p. 75
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"If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both here (England) and in New England."
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"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -in Poor Richard's Almanac
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"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." -in Poor Richard's Almanac
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"When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one."
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"I looked around for God's judgments, but saw no signs of them."
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"In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."
"It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers" (Priestley's Autobiography)
Established Member
TweetThe above are posted for those who wrongly believe that this country is a Christian nation founded by Christian men. Many of the founding fathers were deists and despised Christianity, as evidenced by their own words. Luckily for all of us, they made sure to put in place the separation of church and state.
Re: QUOTES OF OUR FOREFATHERS
TweetWhat about Buddha?? Is that included in that? LOL
Nice anti-religion quotes man.Unfortuneately it has been challenged by many for anyone to produce any actual writings proving that Jefferson was a diest.Here's a quote from Jefferson to the contrary from the Jefferson Cylclopedie.............
To quote the Jefferson Cyclopedia (#2147)
I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in all its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design, consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition...
...it is impossible I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is in all this design, cause and effect up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the universe in its course and order...
Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetWas Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
History revisionist and professor of constitutional law at Faulkner University, John Eidsmoe, of Alabama, recently submitted a letter to the editor of the Montgomery Advertiser [Aug. 30, 1998] and challenged readers to produce an authentic statement from Thomas Jefferson in which he claimed to be a Deist.
While it must be admitted that the words "I am a Deist" are not recorded, the allegation is: "it was mentioned that you was a Deist" (Papers of Thomas Jefferson, 27:39).
Dumas Malone says the charge most often made against Jefferson was atheist: "it was not only made in the public press, it was hurled from pulpits in various places, most of all probably in Connecticut. ... Actually, he was a deist" (Jefferson and His Time, 3:481).
Funk and Wagnalls New Standard Dictionary (1952) includes in the definition of Deist: "One who believes in God but denies supernatural revelation." There is no question Jefferson rejected the Bible as divine revelation and rejected the divinity of Jesus. In the Declaration of Independence Jefferson's appeal was to the God of the Deist, "Nature's God," not specifically to the God of Christianity (see letter dated Sep. 14, 1813, to Jefferson from John Adams equating "Nature's God" with "the revelation from nature").
As President, Jefferson occasionally attended church services; but, he was not a communing member of any Christian church. Further, he refused to proclaim any national days of prayer or thanksgiving.
Jefferson says he was a "Materialist" (letter to Short, Apr. 13, 1820) and a "Unitarian" (letter to Waterhouse, Jan. 8, 1825). Jefferson rejected the Christian doctrine of the "Trinity" (letter to Derieux, Jul. 25, 1788), as well as the doctrine of an eternal Hell (letter to Van der Kemp, May 1, 1817). Further, Jefferson specifically named Joseph Priestly (English Unitarian who moved to America) and Conyers Middleton (English Deist) and said: "I rest on them ... as the basis of my own faith" (letter to Adams, Aug. 22, 1813). Therefore, without using the actual words, Jefferson issued an authentic statement claiming Deism as his faith. The 1971 (ninth edition) Encyclopedia Britannica, 7:183, states the following: "By the end of the 18th century deism had become a dominant religious attitude among upper-class Americans, and the first three presidents of the United States held this conviction, as is amply evidenced in their correspondence." Therefore, it is appropriate to quote the two following paragraphs from the correspondence of President Thomas Jefferson wherein he wrote specifically about deism, as taught by Jesus.
"In consequence of some conversation with Dr. Rush, in the year 1798-99, I had promised some day to write him a letter giving him my view of the Christian system. I have reflected often on it since, and even sketched the outlines in my own mind. I should first take a general view of the moral doctrines of the most remarkable of the antient [ancient] philosophers, of whose ethics we have sufficient information to make an estimate, . . . . I should then take a view of the deism and ethics of the Jews, and show in what a degraded state they were, and the necessity they presented of a reformation. I should proceed to a view of the life, character, and doctrines of Jesus, who sensible of incorrectness of their ideas of the Deity, and of morality, endeavored to bring them to the principles of a pure deism, and juster notions of the attributes of God, to reform their moral doctrines to the standard of reason, justice and philanthropy, and to inculcate the belief of a future state. This view would purposely omit the question of his divinity, and even his inspiration. To do him justice, it would be necessary to remark . . . that his system of morality was the most benevolent and sublime probably that has been ever taught, and consequently more perfect than those of any of the antient philosophers." (Ltr. to Joseph Priestly, Apr. 9, 1803.)
"I had believed that [Connecticut was] the last retreat of monkish darkness, bigotry, and abhorrence of those advances of the mind which had carried the other States a century ahead of them. ... I join you, therefore, in sincere congratulations that this den of the priesthood is at length broken up, and that a Protestant Popedom is no longer to disgrace the American history and character. If by religion we are to understand [i.e., to mean] sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, 'that this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.' But if the moral precepts, innate in man, and made a part of his physical constitution, as necessary for a social being, if the sublime doctrines of philanthropism and deism taught us by Jesus of Nazareth, in which all agree, constitute true religion, then, without it, this would be, as you again say, 'something not fit to be named even, indeed, a hell.'" (Ltr. to Adams, May 5, 1817,Writings,A.A.Lipscomb,15:108-109.)
Copyright 2001 Gene Garman
Re: QUOTES OF OUR FOREFATHERS
TweetHere's the link to the article where Jefferson speaks of God and Jesus.......
https://www.fitnessgeared.com/forum/f...ml#post1057048
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetExistence of Deity/Godby Thomas JeffersonI think that every Christian sect gives a great handle to atheism by their general dogma, that without a revelation. there would not be sufficient proof of the being of a God.
Now, one-sixth of mankind only are supposed to be Christian; the other five-sixths, then who do not believe in the Jewish and Christian revelation. are without knowledge of the existence of a am this gives completely a gain de cause to the disciples of Ocelllus Spinoza Diderot and D'Holbach.
The argument which they rest on as triumphant and unanswerable is, that every hypothesis of cosmology, you must admit an eternal preexistence of something; and according to the rule of sound philosophy, you are never to employ two principles to solve a difficulty when only will suffice
They say then that it is more simple to believe at once an the eternal pre-existence of the world. as it is now going on, and may forever go on by the principle of reproduction which we see and witness than to believe in the eternal pre-existence of an ulterior cause, or Creator of the world, a Being whom we see not and know not, of whose form, substance and mode, or place of existence, or of action, no sense informs us, no power of the mind enables us to delineate or comprehend.
On the contrary. I hold (without appeal to revelation) that when we take a view of the universe, in all its parts, general or particular, it is impossible for the human mind not to perceive and feel a conviction of design consummate skill, and indefinite power in every atom of its composition.
The movements of the heavenly bodies so exactly held in their course by the balance of centrifugal and centripetal force, the structure of our earth itself, with its distribution of lands. water and atmosphere; animal and vegetable bodies, examined in all their minutest particles; insects. mere atoms of life, yet as perfectly organized as man or mammoth; the mineral substances. their generation and uses; it is impossible I say, for the human mind not to believe that there is in all this design, cause and effect up to an ultimate cause, a fabricator of all things from matter and motion, their preserver and regulator while permitted to exist in their present forms, and their regeneration into new and other forms. We see, too evident proofs of the necessity of a superintending power to maintain the universe in its course and order.
Stars well known. have disappeared, new ones have come into view ; comets in their incalculable courses. may run foul of suns and planets. and require renovation under other laws; certain races of animals become extinct and were there no restoring power, all existences might extinguish successively, one by one. Until all should be reduced to a shapeless chaos. So irresistible are these evidences of an intelligent and powerful agent that of the infinite numbers of men who have existed through all time they have believed, in the proportion at least to a unit, in the hypothesis of an eternal pre-existence of a Creator rather than in that of a self-existent universe.
Surely this unanimous sentiment renders this more probable than that of the few in the other hypothesis. Some early Christians, indeed have believed in the co-eternal pre-existence of both the Creator and the world, without changing their relation of cause and effect That was to opinion of St. Thomas we are informal by cardinal Toleta.
To JOHN ADAMS vii 281 1823
Jefferson Cyclopedia, Foley 1900
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetHere's statements from Benjamin Franklin................
If you ever had a question about how big a part faith in a Divine Power had in our country’s heritage, simply go to the Presidential Prayer Team website. You’ll find a section called “Our Nation’s Godly Heritage.”
This from Presidential Prayer Team :
Benjamin Franklin and “Providence”
Benjamin Franklin loomed as large as any of the key leaders of the movement toward independence. Though many consider Franklin to have been a man of questionable faith in God, he spoke frequently of his belief that God Himself was directing the parties who led the Revolution. In fact, said Franklin, it was God who orchestrated the whole history-making event!
Using the colonial term for the hand of God, “Providence,” Franklin here testifies to his belief that God’s hand was ever active in the birth of our nation:
“The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?”
Below are two more quotes from Franklin that express his understanding of God:
“My dear friend, do not imagine that I am vain enough to ascribe our success [Revolution] to any superiority…If it had not been for the justice of our cause, and the consequent interposition of Providence, in which we had faith, we must have been ruined. If I had ever before been an atheist, I should now have been convinced of the being and government of a Deity!”
—In a letter to William Strahan, August 19, 1784
“I must own I have so much faith in the general government of the world by Providence that I can hardly conceive a transaction of such momentous importance to the welfare of millions now existing, and to exist in the posterity of a great nation, should be suffered to pass without being in some degree influenced, guided, and governed by that omnipotent, omnipresent, and beneficent Ruler.”
—On the impact of Independence on generations of Americans during the Constitutional Convention
Platinum
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
Tweetso what are your thoughts on this FIST?
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetOn the presidents not believing or religion itself? I only posted this in response to the posts quoting these presidents in regards to their non beliefs in relion and/or God.
Last edited by ; 02-11-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
Tweetany or all of what you think!Originally Posted by F.I.S.T.
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetWell my thoughts on the presidents can only be based on what others have posted about their statements.I have not personally read anything written by their hand so I cant really say.
As far as my religious beliefs,I absolutely believe in a higher power.I dont believe in everything thats written in the bible (as this was written by man) but I do believe that everything written in there as well as in every ancient document has a basis in truth.
To me there is no YES or NO on the subject.Like so closed minded others who feel there has to be physical proof of everything or its just not true,I keep an open mind to things and do have faith as well as needing proof.I dont believe that science can explain everything as history has proven time and again.Labotomies were what science told us was the correct way to heal people until they were disproved.There has been an abundance of "BONEHEAD" scientific and medical prcatices that have been long been fogotten and is still happening today so to base everything on science is foolish.
I also dont believe that science and religion contradict each other like many others do.As many who cling to the evolution theories tout that this dis-proves religion I completely disagree.Why can there not be both? Could God not have started evolution instead of what is written about Adam & Eve starting the human race? Do you understand what I mean? Could there not be a God who started life on the planet in its most primitive form to allow us to evolve on our own?
Im also a big follower of alien theories.But again,this to me does not negate religion.Could God not have created life forms on other planets long before here on earth making them than more advanced than us? Could they have not put their genetic material here for life to start and evolve?
I cant say,nor can anyone.I do however keep a very open mind to these things and try to study and learn as much as I can on each subject.I do however have faith and do believe there are many things that humans cannot explain but that does not mean they arent real or true.Humans are not infallible and have proven ourselves to be the exact opposite throughout history so taking what we say "today" as truth can very well be made out to be lies tommorrow.
Platinum
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
Tweetdont agree with all you said, but understand very much what you are saying. I believe in the inerrant word of God, but you would have to go back and study all the scrolls and hebrew and greek and latin to know if todays bible say the same thing. I think it is true for the most part. did a little boy have 3 fish or 4 who knows... the story is about Jesus and the miracle!
Im right there with you on aliens, just because its not talked about does not mean they are not out there!
I have studied this alot and just wanted to hear your thoughts!!!
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
TweetWhich parts dont you agree with? Just curious?
Platinum
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
Tweet*** I belive it did start with Adam and Eve, did God make more people other than adam and eve I dont know!?!?, I belive that He could have choose to do somthing dif like you are saying but didnt
ATTITUDES ARE CONTAGIOUS, MINE MIGHT KILL YOU!
"Goals are Dreams with Deadlines!"
Note: All of my advice and posts are merely for educational purposes I do not condone the use of steroids or any other illegal drugs. I am no doctor and my advice should be taken with a grain of salt, just like everyone else's hypothetical advice.
Re: Was Thomas Jefferson a Deist?
Tweet
Gotcha.
Yea,its hard for me to believe that 2 people started all life on earth.So by after Adam and Eva had children thise children had sex with each other and had children and so on? For me,thats where I have to use what I think is the most logical answer to form an opinion on.To me,the dna being planted here theory and evolving into the human we have today is just more logical.Again,not to step on your or anyone elses religious toes,just MY opinion.As we've both stated,noone can say.
On the subject of this,do I believe that there are/were Angels with wings flying around? No.Do I believe that early man tried to interpret a higher being being able to fly/levitate/ascend by drawing pictures of people with wings? Yes..Again,not saying that those those higher beings were not created by God,only the idea that theres a different reality than what primitive man drew or wrote about or could even comprehend.
Like I said,I have an open mind on everything and take the facts on any given subject as well as what people have stated,whether it be by word,by writing or drawings and try to form my opinions on that.I will never try to say what anyone else believes is false because I dont believe it or science cant prove it.Science cant prove many things "TODAY".It doesnt mean it isnt so.
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