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    Thread: Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout

    1. #1
      guns01's Avatar
      guns01 is offline ADMINISTRATOR
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      Default Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout



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      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
      since you guys were talking pre workouts. here is an article i read a little bit back

      Recently, Dave and I have been having long conversations while training. It usually starts as a couple comments between sets - post-workday banter about product ideas or the current "who's who" on social media, and quickly spirals into multi-hour long conversations that I end up wishing I could've recorded. I realized that these small tidbits are the types of things that can get neglected topic-wise in table talks. The topics can range from broken noses to training programming to societal impacts of training and so on. Some of these conversations make me literally stop in my tracks and re-evaluate things. This is one of those topics.

      In a conversation about powerlifting fads, Dave hits me with:
      "that and pre-workout are my least favorite powerlifting fads"

      Wait. What?

      I will admit it. I am addicted to caffeine. I'm addicted and I'm proud.

      However, what I did not expect to hear was that highly caffeinated preworkout supplements are robbing people of their strength potential. You read that right. The supplements that exist in the industry today, touting dangerously high levels of caffeine and other stimulants are SABOTAGING people's training programs.

      I will be the first to admit, this news was a little unsettling. Last summer, my favorite morning beverage consisted of a certain coffee blend that has taken off as being the most caffeinated of it's kind —boasting 660mg of this wonderful chemical per 12 fl. oz. cup. It wasn't unlike me to have a mid-day energy drink, another 140mg, followed up by a late night pre-workout beverage of 300-400mg. Yeah. I was taking in over a gram of caffeine a day and honestly, my training kind of sucked. I'd oftentimes overestimate my abilities for max-effort work and miss lifts.
      "It's true, " Dave said, "caffeine ruins your ability to estimate perceived rates of exertion."

      Awakening coffee cup

      This makes sense. Think about it:

      Let's assume people train using the RPE scale. An RPE of 1 is extremely easy. An RPE of 10 is so beyond difficult that you are reaching the limits of form breakdown and you are completely gassed and done with anything heavy afterward.

      Next take twins of equal strength and build attempting a max effort bench session. One is training without a pre-workout energy drink, the other is training after consuming stimulant heavy pre-workout.

      In this particular bench session, both are working up to an extremely heavy single. It's easy to understand that the highly caffeinated subject will have a higher physiological response to training, his heart rate, perspiration rate, and muscle firing capabilities are all increased. The caffeinated twin is far more likely to feel alert during his lighter sets but at what cost? He's potentially robbing himself of energy stores that should be dedicated to his heaviest single with his heart rate is through the roof and all cylinders are firing muscle-wise. On top of that, the caffeinated twin is far more likely to take larger, riskier jumps in warm-up weight, simply from feeling more alert and ready.

      RECENT: The Short Science Behind Titanium Knick-Knacks

      While the uncaffeinated twin might be able to take himself to an RPE of 10 today, the caffeinated twin might unknowingly be taking himself past that. One property of caffeine is its uncanny ability to simply make us feel good. This is due to the fact that caffeine releases dopamine (the feel good neurotransmitter) in the brain. ¹ So it's quite easy to see how the caffeinated twin can be made to feel too good about his last rep a grindy "warm up" from the brain's dopamine levels being topped off. Induce more good feelings about the next attempt, and you have a recipe for disaster resulting in missed lifts.

      Just to go further, think about what happens when you miss a lift. You pushed yourself to the breaking point and failed. You'll often start to question if it was form breakdown. If you're anything like me, you'll try to blame missed lifts on technical flaws and try again. If that is the case, now you have not only strained to miss a heavy lift, but strained AGAIN. Can you even recover from such volume in time for your next training session? I know I couldn't.

      recovery

      It hit me like a freight train. Caffeine is a wonderful chemical, but it's physiological effects on the human body can be disastrous for strength training.

      Let's not forget how caffeine works either. Caffeine simply makes you FEEL energetic. It does not give you energy. It acts to prevent a neurotransmitter that helps you stay awake from breaking down. It has no potential to supply muscle glycogen, unless your coffee is more cream than bean water. Even then, with this energetic feeling, your body becomes more efficient at metabolizing caffeine as you continue to consume more and more. We've all been there — one cup in the morning just doesn't seem to cut it anymore. One cup becomes two and two become four and next thing you know, you've got cold sweats and your hands are shaking.

      Meanwhile, inside your brain, caffeine is tapping into your endocanabinoid receptors (endogenous marijuana neurotransmitter system). Caffeine is a one-two punch to your brain's feel-good centers, throwing cocaine left hooks in the form of dopamine, and marijuana uppercuts in the form of GABA.

      I'm not here to say that caffeine is a bad thing because it's not. However, it needs to be used in moderation. Being awake and alert in training is crucial, but drinking 4 scoops of who-knows-what isn't doing you any more favors.

      I've known for a while that Dave doesn't use pre-workout. He doesn't need it. The man has one standard energy drink from the local gas station before he trains...that's it. Last week I watched him unrack a squat that was almost 900 pounds at the top and proceed to rep it for a triple, but you're trying to tell me you need three scoops of Ultra Colombian Bam-Bam Energy Extreme V4 to squat 300 pounds?

      That tub of mystery powder (because who actually knows what goes into that proprietary blend?) is screaming, "YES!"

      It's lying.
      References

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...s-feel-so-good
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    2. #2
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      Default Re: Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout

      Agree with the post. Too much caffeine or stimulants in general are taxing on your adrenals and motivation. I've been like you and have taken in over 1g/day on a regular basis. I still do on some days. It's not good and you shouldn't be taking in that much on a regular basis.

      This is the flawed thinking where everyone is out looking for the highest stim pre workout that they can find. Pre workouts are not just about stims. Going back to the days of ultra concentrated formulas they were. Ultra concentrated means "we put a shit ton of cheap stimulants in it and pixy dusted everything else."

      Thankfully consumers and supplement formulators have gotten more savvy and more transparent. More people than ever can actually read and understand a supplement label and know the appropriate doses of the items in it. Full disclosure labels are becoming the rule rather than the exception and everything is getting in the open.

      I always use NutraBio Pre Extreme in this case. While it's a pre workout that will give you a good jolt of energy from the different stimulants, it only contains 250mg of caffeine anhydrous (the fast acting caffeine that everyone is used to) and another 100mg of dicaffeine malate. Dicaffeine malate is a delayed release form of caffeine that essentially kicks in later and is absorbed more slowly thereby mitigating the crash effect. It's also got alpha yohimbe which gives a much better effect than yohimbine hcl. More tolerable. And a range of focus enhancers for that tunnel vision.

      Let's look at what else it has.
      15g Cluster Dextrin - this is a carbohydrate that has a high molecular weight and low osmololity basically this means that it is quickly digested without sitting in your stomach. This form of carb causes a very minimal insulin spike if any and gives your body the quick acting carbohydrates that it needs pre workout.
      Citrulline Malate (6g) - one of the best nitric oxide boosters on the market, nutrabio uses chemically bonded citrulline malate unlike many other companies who don't actually bond the two compounds. Citrulline has overtaken both arginine and agmatine as a go to in pre workouts
      Beta Alanine (2.5g) - Lactic acid buffering agent and has been shown to increase strength and endurance intra workout. Some companies dose this as high as 3.2g but 2.5 is still above the norm.
      Leucine (3.5g) - Known as the anabolic trigger. Most important of the Branched Chain Aminos. Jumpstarts muscle protein synthesis.
      Betaine (2.5g) - Nitric oxide booster and has been shown to have a creatine like effect by increasing strength and endurance over time with continued use.
      Creatine (2g mono) (1g hcl) - not a huge fan of having a sub 5g dose but creatine is creatine. Not like you can get too much of it and monohydrate is cheap.
      Electrolytes for hydration
      Agmatine (1g) - The same as the agmapure from VMI that some users are liking. Dosed appropriately at 1g
      Nitrosigine (750mg) - This is my favorite nitrate for pump. Very effective. It is actually agmatine silicate - Nitrosigine is the branded name. Also used in MTS Vasky.

      Anyways where I was going with this is that pre workouts have a bad stigma due to some of the experiences that some of you have had mixed with some bad PR from some of the shady companies in the industry. However, many do have appropriately dosed ingredients that will do more than just stim you out and will help your lifts. Not only that but it is a great motivator. For me pre workout can take a crappy lift day and turn it into a good one. It's my release when I get off work and my day isn't complete without it. That said sometimes too much is too much and you need to take time off. Normally when I get feelings of anxiety and don't get the effect like I used to I move over to a non-stim or low-stim pre workout for about a month.

    3. #3
      guage's Avatar
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      Default Re: Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout

      interesting

    4. #4
      Yohimbe's Avatar
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      Default Re: Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout

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      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
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      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
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      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
      • Some Bad Things From Your Pre Workout
      Great read and so true. People are consuming so much more caffeine now days, even outside the weightlifting and fitness world. I see so many people consuming astronomical amounts every day at work with all the energy drinks. Not to mention the massive amount of sugar in a lot of these drinks too.
      Train Till Your Eyes Bleed!







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