TweetI think a 6 foot six person w/ avg genetics can get way more than 190-200 natural

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Originally Posted by myseone

Yes your right, every lock can be broken into, nothings fail safe. The point that I was making is that drugs are not necessary to build an impressive physique.

Very true.

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Originally Posted by myseone

Not really, choice should be left to the individual. I personally beilieve that the natural way is the best for longevity and health, I know that drugs give a definite edge that is hard or impossible (depending upon genetics and dedication) to acheive without them. Drugs pose a risk to bodybuilders because we as bodybuilders are generally extremist in thought, most people would be happy with a muscular 16 inch arm but we think that this is small. That kind of mindset makes us more susceptible to using high levels of steriods, because we always want to improve.

My personal belief is that steriods are safe when compared to many other drugs in terms of dosage, the danger comes in when these drugs are used for extended periods of time at high doasages.

Famous individuals who have been effected are:
Flex wheeler, Don Long, Mike Francois, Momo Beneziza, Andreas Muntzer, Mike Mattarazo, among others. These men may have had underlying conditions that would have occured regardless of use, but I can't help believing that heavy drug use did'nt push the issue.

If a person wants to acheive the look of an upper level IFBB pro then they will have to go the steriod route, the question is is it worth it?

taking too many advil, drinking too much nyquil, etc. Everything in excess can be harmful. I can appreciate your dedication to the sport but personally I believe that to get to where you are you need to have the attitude that you do, which I would rather avoid. Every sentence you type it sounds more like lecture then helpful tips, im sorry for being honest but for some reason I felt it was necessary to say something.

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Originally Posted by DeezGunz

taking too many advil, drinking too much nyquil, etc. Everything in excess can be harmful. I can appreciate your dedication to the sport but personally I believe that to get to where you are you need to have the attitude that you do, which I would rather avoid. Every sentence you type it sounds more like lecture then helpful tips, im sorry for being honest but for some reason I felt it was necessary to say something.

Your right I'm speaking in absolutes, everything in excess can be harmful, just some things will hurt you quicker than others. It's not my intention to come of as an obsessed person, I tend to be very analytical and focused as a person, so I understand your view point. My reason for posting in this forum was to show that drugs were not necessary, not that people who chose to use them were bad, after all it's a personal choice.

Concerning myself, my goals have changed as of sorts, as before I focused most of my energys on physique enhancement, I realize the flaw, because it limits development in other aspects of life. My focus right now is balance of mind, body, spirit. My art career is taking off, I'm building better relationships, building towards a good future, so my physique does'nt matter as much as it used to.

I still believe that better long term gains can be had without drugs.

"Mens Sana in Corpore Sano"

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Originally Posted by Skarhead

I think a 6 foot six person w/ avg genetics can get way more than 190-200 natural

Woe is me I guess I have below average genetics, my best weight was 220lbs at 5.11

I typically weigh around 200 at around 6 percent body fat

If my memory servs me right you weigh more than I do and are natural.

TweetI have used gear... Unfortunately i have made bad decisions. I have quit halfway through 2nd cycle to go natural though... Funny thing is i am 5'8' and 200 at around 9% so we're about same size

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Originally Posted by GirlPatriot

Skar has used.

I don't see many people able to achieve greater than 220 naturally. Those that can are gifted in talent and genetics. 220 and 6% is absolutely nothing to sneeze at, that is awesome!

DC and IA have definately brought some of their natural trainees that high...

Tweetthe good thing for you myseone, You get to say you are natural. man ide pay money to do it all over again!. im betting if i went back 5 years ago knowing what i know today I would be bigger, stronger, and leaner naturally... I know DC went from 120 to 220 naturally (dont quote me, but im pretty sure thats correct)... I wish i culd say i was natural damn it!

it also appears the REAL big boys on the boards all waited til they were WELL into their 200s to do gear...

DC says on AVERAGE he can get anyone to grow approx 3.5 lbs per inch naturally and with REALLY GOOD genetics 4 lbs.. I believe it as well - ive seen the man do it. Have you seen what hes done to dave henry ? -- WOW!!!

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Originally Posted by Skarhead

the good thing for you myseone, You get to say you are natural. man ide pay money to do it all over again!. im betting if i went back 5 years ago knowing what i know today I would be bigger, stronger, and leaner naturally... I know DC went from 120 to 220 naturally (dont quote me, but im pretty sure thats correct)... I wish i culd say i was natural damn it!

it also appears the REAL big boys on the boards all waited til they were WELL into their 200s to do gear...

DC says on AVERAGE he can get anyone to grow approx 3.5 lbs per inch naturally and with REALLY GOOD genetics 4 lbs.. I believe it as well - ive seen the man do it. Have you seen what hes done to dave henry ? -- WOW!!!

120 to 220 thats a big gain, wow, 100lbs of new beef. I started at a bodyweight of 155lbs and eventually got up to 220lbs, with an insane amount of calories (in the 7000-8000 range at the top) and obssesive dedication, for a gain of 65lbs. Nowadays I settle for a bit less because of my other asperations and frankly I did'nt feel comfortable eating that many calories or feel comfortable in my body.

Between 200-207lbs is a weight that I can easily hold and still have a life.

If I was interested in gaining more weight I would definitely look into what DC was doing to acheive this. The most I have been able to get a client to gain was 70lbs in a little less than a year, but he was coming back from an attack of Crohns disease and was a little under weight (sort of like Viator was) and the gain was not all muscle.

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Originally Posted by myseone

120 to 220 thats a big gain, wow, 100lbs of new beef. I started at a bodyweight of 155lbs and eventually got up to 220lbs, with an insane amount of calories (in the 7000-8000 range at the top) and obssesive dedication, for a gain of 65lbs. Nowadays I settle for a bit less because of my other asperations and frankly I did'nt feel comfortable eating that many calories or feel comfortable in my body.

Between 200-207lbs is a weight that I can easily hold and still have a life.

If I was interested in gaining more weight I would definitely look into what DC was doing to acheive this. The most I have been able to get a client to gain was 70lbs in a little less than a year, but he was coming back from an attack of Crohns disease and was a little under weight (sort of like Viator was) and the gain was not all muscle.

I only plan on getting to 210 so i can fight cruiser weight as I have other asperations as well(i will dehydrate down to 200 for fights). And no matter what you can always say ure natural, ur symmetry is perfect, as well as your definiitons --- im jealous