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    Thread: Using Thyroid Hormone

    1. #1
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      Default Using Thyroid Hormone



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      Thyroid hormone is an essential part of being optimally healthy and ripped. In fact not only are optimal thyroid levels needed to be healthy and ripped, the absence of optimal levels virtually guarantees poor health. The thyroid gland produces two forms of thyroid hormone: T3 and T4. T3 has three iodine molecules attached to the molecule and T4...you guessed it has four. When four molecules are attached to the molecule, there is only a 10% activity. It has long been known that it is the T3 or triiodothyronine that is the main determinant of thyroid function.

      Thyroid always comes in microgram (mcg doseages). There are numerous forms on the commercial market but the basic T3 drug is called Cytomel and the basic T4 drug is called Synthroid. Without proper conversion of T4 into T3, the T4 levels are irrelevant. Nobody ever got ripped due to T4 alone. Even if you tried it and did, it was due to your body having optimal levels of 5'deiodinase; an enzyme that cleaves off one of the four iodines from T4, converting it to the active T3.

      Most of us who have used T3 for dieting purposes know how truly powerful it can be. Take just enough, you sweat through the night and are always warm as bodyfat seems to just fall from your body. Take a little too much and you will feel flat in the gym, unable to get a pump. This is because the right doseage of Cytomel is anabolic. That is right, whatever state your metabolism is in, T3/Cytomel will accelerate it. So, if you are dieting and not eating enough overall calories, or you are not on a sufficient quantity of anabolic substances, or even overtraining (too much trainign volume while dieting), you can accelerate your catabolic state and cause greater muscle loss while dieting.

      GH, T3, T4 and Dieting
      Growth Hormone accelerates T4 to T3 conversion. What this means is that if you are taking growth while dieting, you will make more T3 out of your available T4. This is due to the GH having an effect on elevating the enzyme 5'deiodinase. The problem with this is that it works great for a few weeks, but then the T4 begins to run a bit low and you can no longer convert much T3. So, the remedy is to add in some T4 with your T3. Besides, T3 downregulates (decreases) the 5'deiodinase enzyme that is converting the T4 to T3. This is a negative feedback similar to the testes-hypothalamus-pituitary when testosterone is elevated from testosterone injections.

      So, the GH accelerates fat loss for a few weeks at an unbelievable rate...and then seems to slow down or even stop. By supplying your system with mostly T4 and just a bit of T3, you allow the GH you are spending all that money on to keep making more T3 from the T4 by way of elevating that great enzyme 5'deiodinase. The amount of T3 you will need will be lower than if you tried to get cut-up on T3 alone, somewhere in the neighborhood of 25mcg total. Maybe less. The T4 will be somewhere between 50 and 100mcg/day. Remember, information purposes only. These are interesting...theories. Don't think I ever got to a legitimate 4% by using these techniques.

      SIDENOTE:

      By the way, anyone saying that they are below 3% bodyfat, does not understand true bodyfat physiology-the brain and spinal cord have a cushion of fat around it protecting these structures. This is why an underwater tank always gives a higher than expected reading for really lean athletes. If you are a true 3%, then your calipers are getting zero on your test. There is no such thing as 0% bodyfat.

      Actually, 3% is the lowest possible because if you were able to lose the internal bodyfat around your brain and spinal cord, you would be dead. A true 5% is shredded...4% is gross veins on the abs and an ability to hold water (by pouring it, not "holding" it subcutaneous) between the blocks of developed rectus (ask me how I know). A true 3% is a true 0% by way of calipers, well, Momo Be****za and Andreas Munzer can tell you how to do that (those of you who get this understand the risk of what I am saying in taking bodyfat levels this low-I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT).

      ADDITIONAL CAUTION: If you are dieting hard and taking GH and thyroid hormones, make sure to read the section on cortisol and adrenal exhaustion. GH and thyroid (both T4 and T3) greatly accelerate adrenal gland fatigue and demand for adrenal horomones and adrenal gland nutrition. Add to this the stress/trauma of a hard diet and grueling workouts and you may risk much more adverse affects than simply being a little dizzy upon standing. If you exhaust your adrenals while on this regimen, you will hold water on your physique, and more seriously, you will greatly strain your kidneys if your blood pressure becomes too low.

      Consider this: we all hear about how oral anabolics are so toxic. Yet there has never been one single bodybuilder who retired/got sick/died due to liver toxicity and failure. It is always something having to do with the gut, or the KIDNEYS. The kidneys do not like chronically low or chronically high blood pressure. The tiny arterioles inside these structures are amazingly sensitive to damage. Cortisol from the adrenals regulates every single function in the body to some degree (directly or indirectly) Are you starting to see why using GH, thyroid hormones, and cortisol blocking drugs on top of anabolics (which naturally interfere with cortisol) is a weeeeeeeee bit of an overkill? Please be careful. We need healthy adrenals and SOME cortisol to survive.


      T3, Cytomel, and your Diet: Accelerated Fat-Loss VS Muscle Catabolism
      Thyroid use during dieting is a double edge sword. The reason is T3/Cytomel will accelerate fat-loss as we mentioned but the quantity used is critical to balancing maximal fat-loss with minimal muscle loss. So, how can we tell if the dose is ideal?

      Morning basal body temperature is your answer. Think about this two-fold question for a moment:

      Is guarding your muscle tissue while you spend tons of money on physique drugs and busting your ass in the gym worth saving for about $10-$15 dollars? And...

      If I told you that you could remove dieting and fat loss plateaus, would you be interested?

      If you are dieting hard and you are using Cytomel, please, go to your local pharmacy and buy a DIGITAL THERMOMETER. Most research says that your temperature immediately upon sitting up out of bed should be 97.8-98.2 degrees fahrenheit(its not an anabolic chemical name-I'm not responsible for the spelling-lol).

      It is actually a good idea to have a reference point before you start dieting i.e. know your resting, normal basal temperature before you diet. Three days is a good minimum for taking a reference temperature. It is important to take your temp right when you wake up, preferably without even getting out of bed. Just keep your digital thermometer next to your nightstand and take your temperature right when your eyes open. This is important because if you get up to use the bathroom, or do any movement for that matter, you will elevate your body temp, and you will have resting temp, not BASAL temperature.

      Here is the key to T3/Cytomel/Thyroid use when dieting:

      Keep your BASAL temperature in the 97.8-98.2 range. If you are early in your diet and using Cytomel with a BASAL temp above this, diet harder, use less Cytomel, and don't kill so many stimulants and fat burners so early in the diet. Doing so is a sure way to hit a mountain of a fat-loss plateau and none of us will be happy. As long as you are within these temps, you will have the best control over keeping a balance between a revvvvvvvving metabolism yet safeguarding your hard-earned muscle tissue.

      Will you lose fat if you jack your temp way up above this range? Yes. But you will be highly likely to hit a fat-loss plateau sooner as well. Tachycardia or rapid heart beat at rest >90 beats per minute (bpm) is a very real side effect of overdosing your Thyroid in general (this can happen with T4/Synthroid or T3 Cytomel). Due to the fat-loss drugs that we combine with the dieting regimen, a more realistic "bodybuilding tachycardic" number would be 100 bpm or more. If this is you when dieting, back off your stuff. Those upregulated beta adrenergic receptors are great on fat cells and muscle cells, but not if one of those muscle is your heart becoming overly sensitized and pounding all the time. Trust me, this is NOT fun. A little thyroid in the right combination goes a long way and cautious and intelligent application makes for a much more comfortable and effective experience.

      This is where patience and diligence comes into play. Allowing enough time to lose all the necessary body-fat without rushing increased doseages and increased cardio will help you keep from going catabolic. You will also be healthier and look way, way, way better by the time you reach the end of your dieting/fat-shredding plan.

      So what do you do when you have dieted for a few weeks on consistent doseages across the board? Hehe. There are so many variable to play with. How long can you stay DIET DISCIPLINED? Getting shredded is a matter of cellular environment, not genetics. Ouch!! Did I say that-YES!! We are using assistance, the only way to fail is to:

      1. Get lazy and give up or slack off 2. Fail to apply the proper science based/plateau avoiding/knowledge/experience/fact-based/empirical and academic fat-loss TRUTHS 3. Get into a daily ego battle with that Japanese hot-dog-eating champion from a few years ago. Did anyone else see that?! That dude was less than 140lbs!!

      Thyroid Antibodies: Understanding Fat-Loss Plateaus Due to Thyroid
      Thyroid antibodies are the main way that the body down-regulates or decreases the activity of T3. There are three main antibodies that are produced if the body senses that the metabolism is burning too high or too fast. They are

      1. Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody (TPA)- not a whole lot we can doo to control it (see below) 2. Thyroglobulin Antibody - not a whole lot we can do to control it 3. Reverse T3 (rT3) - this one we can control with our own..."remedies"

      The specific functions and how these three work is not all that important. We just need to understand how to keep all three of these evil-anti-shredded physique destroyers under control. To do this, we need to understand what stimulates their increased production and activity.

      Understand that an "antibody" is an autoimmune response. All this means is that our immune system is on autopilot and makes these substances when it senses something is wrong in order to protect us. This is also where the term "autoimmune disease" comes from. In this case, the body senses some perceived harm and attempts to make substances which fight off the harm or control it. The problem is, this response is either

      1. too aggressive - the body overproduces substances that are only needed in lesser amounts. Production stays turned on which floods the body with too many substances and there is overkill which leads to side effects. 2. a false alarm - the body perceives a threat even though there is none.

      The body produces various immune system reactions despite the fact that there really is nothing to defend against. This causes problems and is "autoimmune disease". There are many types. Thyroid antibodies are only one type of "autoimmune response". The most likely way to have success at fixing this is through nutritional interventions and high dose thyroid (T3) medication.

      There are many factors which increase this fatty trio. Some we cannot really control, or we can, but it is beyond the depths of this quick read. So, understand that there are more factors than those I am about to list, but these are the ones we can control.

      1. A decreased calorie diet over weeks and weeks begins to elevate rT3. Not only does Free T3 go down (your main metabolic regulator) but rT3 goes up. For our purposes, You can think of each molecule of rT3 erasing the function of each molecule of Free (Active) T3. So, if you were tested at the doctor's office and have plenty of Free T3 but high rT3, you may still need to add some Cytomel.

      "Theoretical Remedy":

      Increase T3 doseage by way of Cytomel, do more cardio but eat more clean food, layer in thermogenic drugs in order to elevate the metabolism from non-thyroid mechanisms.

      "Nutritional/Nutriceutical Remedy":

      Add in selenium at a doseage of 200mcg per day. Selenium is a key mineral for conversion of inactive T4 to the active T3. It is also a powerful nutrient involved in helping the body to make enzymes which fight off free radicals. Many free radicals have a high correlation to elevating Thyroid antibodies.

    2. #2
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      excellent read...had to stick this!!
      seems like its VERY bennificial to use t4 wiht the gh and t3!! man.....seems like forever since i've seen t4 for sale!
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    3. #3
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      yea t4 is pretty hard to find it seems. I know t3 works i would like to try a t3/t4 combo and see what happens.

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Quote Originally Posted by jamescb77 View Post
      yea t4 is pretty hard to find it seems. I know t3 works i would like to try a t3/t4 combo and see what happens.
      right!! get on that....find that shyt for us, lol
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    5. #5
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Shoot one of the sponsors around sells the combo whats the name of the pill, anyone?

    6. #6
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Quote Originally Posted by ketsugo View Post
      Shoot one of the sponsors around sells the combo whats the name of the pill, anyone?
      t-4 levothyroxine sodium, Synthroid, Levoxyl, Levothroid, Unithroid

      t-3 liothyronine sodium, Cytomel, Triostat

    7. #7
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Strength (mcg) Color additive(s)

      25mcg FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake
      50mcg None
      75mcg FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Blue No. 2 Aluminum Lake
      88mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake
      100mcg D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake
      112mcg D&C Red No. 27 & 30 Aluminum Lake
      125mcg FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake,
      FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake
      137mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake
      150mcg FD&C Blue No. 2 Aluminum Lake
      175mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, D&C Red No. 27 & 30 Aluminum Lake
      200mcg FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake
      300mcg D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake

      Why are there so many strengths of t4 levothyroxine?
      Because some, not all have problems converting t4 to t3.

      To my point... let say you have normal thyroid funtion and I am and evil villian and I fry your thyroid and you will need to be on t4 for life. What is the right amount? As you can see, this could be from 25mcgs to 300mcgs. The only way you could know is to run a TSH lab test to determine if your body is asking for more or less.
      The half life of t4 is 7-9 days (depending on when injested with/without food)You will not see full results for approximatly two weeks AND when discontinuing, it won't clear your system for the same.
      This si a subject I have probably seen the most MISinformation on. Not to say what was posted here and in recent posts are incorrect but there is a lot to be considered.
      A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -Thomas Jefferson

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Ive used thyroid off and on for 15 years- and I have trained guys and put them on it- never have i seen any issues with frying your thyroid- Many of the cycles done here are far more dnagerous than thyroid, I have to laugh at all the hysteria created

    9. #9
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Quote Originally Posted by firstenrgy View Post
      Strength (mcg) Color additive(s)

      25mcg FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake
      50mcg None
      75mcg FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Blue No. 2 Aluminum Lake
      88mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake
      100mcg D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake
      112mcg D&C Red No. 27 & 30 Aluminum Lake
      125mcg FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake,
      FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake
      137mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake
      150mcg FD&C Blue No. 2 Aluminum Lake
      175mcg FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake, D&C Red No. 27 & 30 Aluminum Lake
      200mcg FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake
      300mcg D&C Yellow No. 10 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Yellow No. 6 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Blue No. 1 Aluminum Lake

      Why are there so many strengths of t4 levothyroxine?
      Because some, not all have problems converting t4 to t3.

      To my point... let say you have normal thyroid funtion and I am and evil villian and I fry your thyroid and you will need to be on t4 for life. What is the right amount? As you can see, this could be from 25mcgs to 300mcgs.
      This is why I almost passed on posting on this. People read what portions they want. I wrote as quoted above. Lets assume I'm an evil villian and fry your thyroid (so it will not work). Then and only then would you need oral thyroid hormone. Please read a post fully if you are going to comment on it
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Bro- I dont need to read the whole post- I call it too much thinking and clutter. Its frivolous to think one would need to consider all that. You could do that with any product. All that matters is you use it intelligently. You begin with low dose then ramp up and monitor how you feel. There is no right dose- never go overboard without taking a break. Thats how simple it is- You are over complicating a very simple matter

      By the way the answer to my question is
      Armour and Thyrolar are drugs that provide BOTH T4 and T3 thyroid hormones, instead of just providing T4, as levothyroxine sodium drugs like Synthroid do.

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Here is a typical cycle that has been used by many- not the overdosing you see everyone on the forums talk of. Again?? there is no ryhme or reason to look at every single thyroid made - just get 25 mcg and dose as follow
      Running it for three weeks, one could choose for a schedule as follows:

      25/25/25/50/50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100/75/75/75/50/50/50/25/25/25 mcg/day

      If taken for 4 weeks, then run each dose for 4 days, 5 weeks then each dose for 5 days and so on.

      It is extremely important that the doses are tapered on and off and that a cycle never exceeds 6 weeks at the most.

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Quote Originally Posted by ketsugo View Post
      Here is a typical cycle that has been used by many- not the overdosing you see everyone on the forums talk of. Again?? there is no ryhme or reason to look at every single thyroid made - just get 25 mcg and dose as follow
      Running it for three weeks, one could choose for a schedule as follows:

      25/25/25/50/50/50/75/75/75/100/100/100/75/75/75/50/50/50/25/25/25 mcg/day

      If taken for 4 weeks, then run each dose for 4 days, 5 weeks then each dose for 5 days and so on.

      It is extremely important that the doses are tapered on and off and that a cycle never exceeds 6 weeks at the most.
      And how did the blodwork come in for the "many" clients?
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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      Personally I think one has to really know their stuff if they are going to mess with their thyroid. The thyroid controls so much in the body. Anytime synthetic or hormones, of any kind, are used your body's natural hromones can be shut down for a period of time or even permanently.
      Veritas Vos Liberabit

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

      I think as long as people stick to the guidelines of 6 weeks only and not doing ultra high dosages like 200-300mg that I see kids on other forums speak of- then your body will bounce back. We got people cycling aas nonstop- far moree dangerous than this

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      Default Re: Using Thyroid Hormone

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      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone

      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      • Using Thyroid Hormone
      Quote Originally Posted by firstenrgy View Post
      And how did the blodwork come in for the "many" clients?
      There were no issues as I do bloodwork and those I train do as well. I been doing it for long time my friend. Have you? I cant understand when people give me a snyde tone when they havent even done even one time. Whenever you try anything- you begin small and titrate in small incrrements- keep a diary of your training and how your body responds- If you leanr to read your body signals - you can always stop prior to having any major issues. On this forum we are talking of bodybuilding and fitness purposes- typically sponsors sell only 25mcg and or 50mcg pills- so to post every single solitary type and brand of thyroid really makes no sense. I mean why dont we list every single brand , lab dose and ester of Testosterone- It dont matter because for the puposes we typically use them for we use only a particular dosage. I mean no disrespect but your tone is a bit sarcastic as well- Im trying to explain it as easily as possible- If you dont know much about it then Im saying that you are over complicating things. There is a hysteria over this, like how the general public views AAS- yet of course we have tons of people on the forums abusing AAS
      Last edited by ketsugo; 06-16-2011 at 03:02 PM.

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