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Originally Posted by guns01

you wont find them because it is illegal to use hgh for any off label use. most of the things you hear about it healing and helping is from illegal uses from athletes body builders and docs making educated guesses. the thing is just like pot the gov wont even approve or fund studies on the benefits of their use. only label use for gh is of course gh deficiency hell if you look around a bit you will find studies and docs saying that gh doesnt increase muscle or really do anything positive at all

Yeah I'm aware you can only do a study legally due to ethics violations just wasn't aware to what extent HGH is legal in that regards. Hell if we do studies on little kids under 10 years old, HIV patients & burn victims figured spinal injuries may be on that list but apparently not. Just like most things in the BB world you have to rely on trial and error and most importantly you have to rely on getting a quality product or you are really just wasting your time.

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Originally Posted by BABY1

So age is not a factor in dosage and regimen, for healng purposes?

I would think it absolutely is, the jury is out still on whether or not exogenous HGH use will shut down or decrease your natural secretion of IGF-1 levels. I personally find it hard to believe it shuts you down completely I wouldn't be surprised if it decreases the amount your body produces though. So just for simplicity sake lets say at 45 y/o has a natty level of 100mcg/L of IGF and when using 5iu/day that number increases to 500mcg/L but a 30 y/o with a baseline of 200mcg/L @ 5iu a day tests at 600mcg/L. So dose + your baseline, which no doubt decreases with age, obviously will equal your total dosage. Now if exogenous use completely shuts us down than age would not be a factor however I just don't think it does but thats me. As for regimen I'm a firm believer there is one and only one regimen for GH use and that is ED use no 5 on 2 off, 6 on 1 off, etc. With all that being said its really just "bro-science" and personal experiences as there is very little actual scientific data available to give a properly informed answer. I do think the type of injury is a HUGE factor and as I said before the multi-level fusion is a very serious injury and HGH use can't hurt with recovery however I would not be in a rush to get back in the gym as that would make you more susceptible to the surgery being a failure.

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Originally Posted by alluprbdy

I would think it absolutely is, the jury is out still on whether or not exogenous HGH use will shut down or decrease your natural secretion of IGF-1 levels. I personally find it hard to believe it shuts you down completely I wouldn't be surprised if it decreases the amount your body produces though. So just for simplicity sake lets say at 45 y/o has a natty level of 100mcg/L of IGF and when using 5iu/day that number increases to 500mcg/L but a 30 y/o with a baseline of 200mcg/L @ 5iu a day tests at 600mcg/L. So dose + your baseline, which no doubt decreases with age, obviously will equal your total dosage. Now if exogenous use completely shuts us down than age would not be a factor however I just don't think it does but thats me. As for regimen I'm a firm believer there is one and only one regimen for GH use and that is ED use no 5 on 2 off, 6 on 1 off, etc. With all that being said its really just "bro-science" and personal experiences as there is very little actual scientific data available to give a properly informed answer. I do think the type of injury is a HUGE factor and as I said before the multi-level fusion is a very serious injury and HGH use can't hurt with recovery however I would not be in a rush to get back in the gym as that would make you more susceptible to the surgery being a failure.

something cool i learned from a really smart coach that works with one of the top sports docs in the county about gh is this. it's not so much that gh is going to cause natural shut down and all of that but since it causes significant insulin resistance it can create a climate ripe for becoming diabetic. those the do multiple pulses with high doses of gh through the day and those that do gh and slin together are very prone to getting it. i thought that was pretty interesting from a side effect point. i cant remember off the top of my head if it is listed on the insert for gh though

i am also a huge advocate of the 5 on 2 off use. over time your body will develop anti bodies to exogenous gh. why not slow down that process to a degree?

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Originally Posted by guns01

something cool i learned from a really smart coach that works with one of the top sports docs in the county about gh is this. it's not so much that gh is going to cause natural shut down and all of that but since it causes significant insulin resistance it can create a climate ripe for becoming diabetic. those the do multiple pulses with high doses of gh through the day and those that do gh and slin together are very prone to getting it. i thought that was pretty interesting from a side effect point. i cant remember off the top of my head if it is listed on the insert for gh though

i am also a huge advocate of the 5 on 2 off use. over time your body will develop anti bodies to exogenous gh. why not slow down that process to a degree?

https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=577

Interestingly enough it does bring up the potential for decrease in insulin sensitivity in the labeling, I do think we are so limited on data though that its hard to say how big a risk that is but if you are running GH you are prob pretty serious into bodybuilding and know that there is potential for a lot of negative side effects from the activity you chose to pursue. I am pretty shocked how pro's like Health specifically who are known to run some pretty enormous doses of insulin and for very long periods aren't becoming diabetics, at least not frequently I know there is at least 1 pro who is a diabetic now but you would think it would be much more common. I just personally don't see a benefit coming from running hgh inconsistently. In my opinion if you are going to take that next step forward into the performance enhancing drug world, all tho ppl seem to jump on it with about as much thought as they do before jumping on test e it should be seem as big step forward, you should have that "all in" mindset. Now I'm not formally educated in pharmacology my formal education is Economics & Accounting so I really couldn't have less of a formal education in the sciences. However I have a deep interest in it and spend a considerable amount of time reading studies on various things in the pharma world and the HGH studies I'm familiar with are dosed daily but even saying that who really know's if taking 2 days off is going to slow down anything besides the results you get? Also how long does the average forum BB'r plan to run gh? I'd say most do it 2 or 3x and usually for 6mo or less so in those cases I really see no benefit, maybe that would come into play with a pro who is on for a decade straight? But it's all gonna be trial an error really, I know me personally I've stayed on as long as 2 years straight at a dose ranging from as low as 5 to as high as 10.

TweetBut at the end of the day with HGH the biggest factor in dosing regimen and dose amount tends to be one's wallet, at least in my experiences with people making a call on there GH runs. For me I pretty much stick to either 5iu/day or 10iu/day. I think 5iu/day is the best bang for the buck dose you can get and if you are going to attempt to get HUGE so to speak 10iu/day of GH combined with humalog is a very hard combo to beat. Also a very dangerous one to use and only maybe 5% of the online forum BB world should even consider it as it is def another giant leap forward in the drug world from just running gh alone. Educate yourself as much possible, Read every scientific article available to you, Always be open to others idea's as none of us know it all & make a well informed decision.

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Originally Posted by alluprbdy

https://labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLabeling.aspx?id=577

Interestingly enough it does bring up the potential for decrease in insulin sensitivity in the labeling, I do think we are so limited on data though that its hard to say how big a risk that is but if you are running GH you are prob pretty serious into bodybuilding and know that there is potential for a lot of negative side effects from the activity you chose to pursue. I am pretty shocked how pro's like Health specifically who are known to run some pretty enormous doses of insulin and for very long periods aren't becoming diabetics, at least not frequently I know there is at least 1 pro who is a diabetic now but you would think it would be much more common. I just personally don't see a benefit coming from running hgh inconsistently. In my opinion if you are going to take that next step forward into the performance enhancing drug world, all tho ppl seem to jump on it with about as much thought as they do before jumping on test e it should be seem as big step forward, you should have that "all in" mindset. Now I'm not formally educated in pharmacology my formal education is Economics & Accounting so I really couldn't have less of a formal education in the sciences. However I have a deep interest in it and spend a considerable amount of time reading studies on various things in the pharma world and the HGH studies I'm familiar with are dosed daily but even saying that who really know's if taking 2 days off is going to slow down anything besides the results you get? Also how long does the average forum BB'r plan to run gh? I'd say most do it 2 or 3x and usually for 6mo or less so in those cases I really see no benefit, maybe that would come into play with a pro who is on for a decade straight? But it's all gonna be trial an error really, I know me personally I've stayed on as long as 2 years straight at a dose ranging from as low as 5 to as high as 10.

i am the same as you are and i havent dropped off in a very very very long time.

what i found cool from the people that i know and talk to is what some of these guys actually do in the pros and top tier npc people. we arent talking about 3-5-10ius a day for an extended period of time. we are talking about 25 or more daily for extended periods of time alongside of huge amounts of slin. that's pretty common. those in and leaving the sport that have end up as diabetics would surprise you. they dont advertise or talk about it either. their are a couple actively competing right now. only 1 that i know of that is open about it and i know one npc guy personally from jr nationals last year.

i am with you in the all in and know what the risk to reward ratio is. and never going into anything without knowing what the end results are. hell even the guys that do end up having issues could have a genetic issue that they dont even know about anyway or maybe not. you just never know. just a risk we take when we choose to go that route

someone cool to read papers from is dr eric serrano. he puts some really good stuff out there on occasion. if you get a chance to go to a seminar he is speaking at, jump on it. dude is open and super smart on what we do

TweetCool if you got any of his articles book-marked shoot me a pm, I'm "working" from home thanks to snow so I wouldn't mind checking em out. & yeah I am only friends with a couple guys with cards but no one significant, however even one of those guys who doesn't make a living from it has run as much as 25iu/day of HGH...unbelievable amount of money to invest into your body. I've heard of pro's running as much as 10iu of humalog 2x a day but that is just hear-say but it would not surprise. Yet one of the best physique's of everyone I know is one of closet friends who had a 15 year lay off from the stage and now at 43 is going to try for his pro card in September (6'2" 264# lean as a mofo right now, still bulking and on drol of all things) and this guy runs super low doses and has never touched HGH or slin. His typical run is 500 Test and 40mg or so of an oral. I finally convinced him this year to go a little harder beings he's not 30 anymore but even that being said hes only on 750 test e, 600 tren e & 50mg liquid drol. He's aiming for 270# with abs prior to starting his dieting for show condition, which he hopes to step on stage @ 245# rock solid.

TweetIGF1 ran along with GH actually balances the negative effect on insulin sensitivity, and they offer together some proven synergistic effects -


Here is a relevant article -

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8853443
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GH may exert metabolic effects either directly or indirectly through increased production of IGF-I. GH administration increases circulating IGF-I levels via stimulation of hepatic synthesis and secretion of IGF-I; it may also enhance local IGF-I synthesis, which exerts paracrine or autocrine effects. Figure 2 summarizes the metabolic effects of GH and IGF-I. Administration of GH and IGF-I in adult humans has been demonstrated to enhance protein anabolism. Combined administration of GH and IGF-I was observed to be more anabolic than either IGF-I or GH alone. Evidence is presented that protein accretion results mainly from direct effects of GH on tissues; additional indirect effects via IGF-I production are also likely. Administration of GH has been reported to produce carbohydrate intolerance with elevated plasma insulin levels, resulting from insulin resistance. in contrast, insulin sensitivity increased during administration of IGF-I, which exerts hypoglycaemic effects even with concomitant suppression of insulin secretion. A major direct metabolic effect of GH is to increase fat mobilization and oxidation, and thereby to reduce total body fat; there is no evidence that IGF-I acts directly on adipose tissue in vivo. GH administration results in sodium retention via stimulation of Na-K-ATPase. It is suggested that part of the effects of GH on tubular function (e.g. phosphate reabsorption) are mediated via IGF-I. Energy expenditure may be increased by administration of either GH or relatively high doses of IGF-I. One of the reasons for this phenomenon is an increase in lean body mass; GH may increase energy expenditure additionally be enhancing the production of T3 and by increasing lipid oxidation
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Tweetlotsof good reading in this thread...learn, learn and never stop learning

TweetThe suggested amount to speed healing is very very conservative. It will promote healing and negate any sides.
I am fortunate to take up weight training and know so many knowledgeable guys. The ailments I have been through.
Actually just 1 The thyroid storm has been brewing for years and then it blew. The Dr says me having such a strong body
helped me recover faster.
The one issue brought many issues on its heals for sure. I am convinced my conservative use of AAS saved my life.